tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post7264062048367993055..comments2024-03-26T00:47:55.322-07:00Comments on Shrikant G Talageri: What is the Value of the New "Genomic Evidence" for the Aryan Invasion/Migration Theory versus the Out-of-India Theory?Shrikant Talagerihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15700049337974422213noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-84878422109726572712021-07-10T02:49:29.718-07:002021-07-10T02:49:29.718-07:00yes dravidians wrote vedas not north indians, thes...yes dravidians wrote vedas not north indians, these people have to believe in one thing either europeans or dravidians , north indian and uppercaste didnt wrote vedas and that is completely proves after rakhigarhiAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03557032645447321785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-62533808524637780632020-02-12T12:52:54.864-08:002020-02-12T12:52:54.864-08:00The so called admixture of ANi and ASI occured 4.2...The so called admixture of ANi and ASI occured 4.2 years ago. This means the ANI population was already in existance in India before that. There it shouldn't be surprising to find a chariot.Abhihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05292044395567931649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-9086215134067245272019-12-02T16:58:02.083-08:002019-12-02T16:58:02.083-08:00I suggest you read the works of Vedveer Arya who a...I suggest you read the works of Vedveer Arya who also found textual evidence for Vedic antiquity and OIT. Do you remember how you were taught that the Mauryas ruled in the 4th century BCE? Well Vedveer Arya has rightfully established that the Imperial Guptas ruled in the 4rth century BCE, which validates the king list in the Puranas. Vedveer Arya also proposed the Saka era to be 583 BCE and to 78 CE. Please check his works out on Academia.edu. Only recently he published a 3 volume book, yet to be launched.Abhihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05292044395567931649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-68309652467946338712019-06-18T03:40:49.467-07:002019-06-18T03:40:49.467-07:00I feel really happy to have seen your web-page and...I feel really happy to have seen your web-page and look forward to so many more entertaining times reading here. Thanks once more for all the details.I just liked the article. It was Very refreshing post with attractive ideas.It was great to read your blog.<br /><a href="http://aocbypoonambindra.com/videos.php" rel="nofollow">Traditional Indian Food</a><br />Art of Cooking By Poonam Bindrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13943052049636434951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-54462928334402278712018-10-30T05:32:16.529-07:002018-10-30T05:32:16.529-07:00"Are the Vietnamese and the Santals genetical..."Are the Vietnamese and the Santals genetically closer to each other than the Vietnamese are to their neighboring Sino-Tibetan language speaking Laotians and Burmese or the Santals are to their non-Austric neighbors?" ---> <br /><br /> I know you might get angry but population genetics researchers detected male lineages in Austric speakers (Y-chromosome haplogroup) that are common in south-east Asia but otherwise rare in Indo-European,Dravidian speakers. Mixing with the local females will dilute the south-east asian autosomal component in austroasiatic speakers but can be easily detected in south mundas.<br /><br />A paper just got published regarding genetics of the munda speakers <br /><br /><br />https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327812363_The_genetic_legacy_of_continental_scale_admixture_in_Indian_Austroasiatic_speakerstim drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05093741606718091068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-70855824077286374112018-10-20T09:26:04.950-07:002018-10-20T09:26:04.950-07:00"Anyhow there is no trace of Aryan DNA in our..."Anyhow there is no trace of Aryan DNA in our ancient India." --- it's just one sample dude. IVC at it's peak might have had a population that was around 5 million. You don't derieve a conclusion about the ethincity of a whole civilization from just 1 sample( on the contrary we have more than 50 samples from the Steppe Bronze age).<br /><br /><br />"So we can conclude that Rig Vedas were contributed by the combination of AASI & Iranian farmers" --- Well, witzel would think otherwise :).<br /><br />"As per him Dravidians and Nagas are one and the same" ---- From what i understand , dravidians is just a linguitic identity. From whatevr i have read regarding south indian population genetics, not all are the same genetically (i am not talking about the brahmins). The ones on the western ghats seem to a bit different from the eastern onestim drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05093741606718091068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-36335141990747138702018-10-20T07:56:38.442-07:002018-10-20T07:56:38.442-07:00Anyhow there is no trace of Aryan DNA in our ancie...Anyhow there is no trace of Aryan DNA in our ancient India. It is a big victory for Dravidian theory supporters. So we can conclude that Rig Vedas were contributed by the combination of AASI & Iranian farmers. The original meaning of the name "Aryan" mentioned in Rig Vedas should be revalued in different context as Max muller described. He is very much correct to say that the origin of the name "Aryan" was derived from "Ar" which means ploughing & tilting the Earth.As per him the term "Aryan" means the man who do cultivation and farming is called "Aryan". It must be truth because in Tamil the river is called as " Aaru". Those who make use of river water for cultivation by ploughing the land were called as "Aryans". Later those who became landlords were called as noble Aryans. The social intercourse between AASI & Iranian farmers leads to learn the technology of cultivation and farming by AASI and therefore it leads to a cultural revolution to produce a literature like Rig Vedas. Then regarding Dravidian, they were the people who settled and mixed with AASI in south when the IVC was declined due to the death of Indus river. They were called ad " Nagas" in our later literatures as per Dr.Ambedkar.As per him Dravidians and Nagas are one and the same.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04920233427860839615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-88709374826617190512018-10-12T04:42:05.009-07:002018-10-12T04:42:05.009-07:00Hey Chandra Sekar, I think given whatever evidence...Hey Chandra Sekar, I think given whatever evidence we have, your 'Dravidians' themselves have quite significant component of Iranian Farmer ancestry. From what i read , the lone rakhigarhi sample consist of Iranian farmer like ancestry + AASI(Ancient Ancestral South Indian as per current nomenclature). Now , ASI and ANI have been redefined. ASI doesn't mean aboriginal/moolnivasi but a mixture of Iranian Farmer + AASI. Besides,it's just a SINGLE SAMPLE from a civilization which likely had ~5 million people at it's peak. So, statistically one can't derive much conclusion about a civilization from a single sample.<br /><br />"So it justified the theory proposed by Dr.Ambedkar as Dravidian language was the early spoken language of our country before Sanskrit." --- I have no idea what this 'Proto-Dravdian' language would be given Sangam era texts don't talk of a Tamil homeland around the Indus region.tim drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05093741606718091068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-38044933080267117852018-09-14T08:51:42.193-07:002018-09-14T08:51:42.193-07:00To srikant sir, Now latest DNA study in haryana sh...To srikant sir, Now latest DNA study in haryana shows the existence of ASI gene only. It means Dravidian people constitute more gene pool of ASI. So shall we conclude ASI was the creators of rigvedas. So it justified the theory proposed by Dr.Ambedkar as Dravidian language was the early spoken language of our country before Sanskrit.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04920233427860839615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-5407686237003712762018-06-23T01:58:58.659-07:002018-06-23T01:58:58.659-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.arish108https://www.blogger.com/profile/13426868500839924438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-41720622361921356272018-06-20T20:51:41.312-07:002018-06-20T20:51:41.312-07:00"However there are two types of burials - one..."However there are two types of burials - one which ornamental and one which is not. The non ornamental ones have DNA closer to the SC population from the Gangetic Plains while the ornamental graves skeletons are much closer to ANI" ---- Atharva, how do you know which grave's DNA is closer to which population when the paper hasn't even been released yet ? How do people even come up with these wild conjectures lol ? <br />As for ornamental and non-ornamental type burials, such kind of burials are common all around the world where Kings,landlords and wealthy people would have more elaborate burials (e.g Egyptian pharaohs tombs) . Class might be a better word here .tim drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05093741606718091068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-44817277539860866332018-06-17T05:56:35.351-07:002018-06-17T05:56:35.351-07:00Shrikant,
The two articles I referred to above a...Shrikant, <br /><br />The two articles I referred to above are: <br /><br />"Harappan site of rakigarhi:DNA study finds no central asian trace,junks Aryan invasion theory" on economic times. Article is by anubhuti Vishnu.<br /><br />"No rakigarhi migration since Harappan era:experts" on the tribune newspaper. Baji Rao 1https://www.blogger.com/profile/15229580294036811942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-55686246900307097922018-06-17T05:19:43.182-07:002018-06-17T05:19:43.182-07:00Shrikant,
Just a couple of days back, there were...Shrikant, <br /><br />Just a couple of days back, there were articles in the media refuting the aryan invasion based on genetics itself. Just today there is an article titled "no migration to rakigarhi since Harappan times". There was also another article on economic times, debunking Aryan invasion theory.Baji Rao 1https://www.blogger.com/profile/15229580294036811942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-25687172983687384392018-06-14T18:52:57.801-07:002018-06-14T18:52:57.801-07:00The chariots to the east of Haryana in 2200-1800 B...The chariots to the east of Haryana in 2200-1800 BCE (I wish the archaeologists had conducted all possible scientific dating tests on the chariots and their accompanying articles to arrive at a more precise or exact date) show the utter fakeness of the genomic evidence which was being tomtomed a few months ago, which claimed that the "Aryans" started moving south from Central Asia into the Punjab in the course of the second millennium BCE. Already, in 2200-1800 BCE, we have found the first evidence of "Aryan" chariots far to the east in possibly the late third millennium BCE. It is found in the exact area pointed out in my books and blogs as the original home of the "Vedic Aryans" or Purus: "Haryana and the areas of westernmost U.P. to its east".<br /><br />More details are required about the exact date of the chariots and their stage of development: it is now very reasonable to expect finds of even more primitive forms of chariots in the same area in even earlier periods. The fact that the wheels are supposed to have been flat wheels and not spoked wheels (although this requires to be further tested and confirmed) does not matter since it is possible that flat wheeled chariots were used for ritual purposes (as for burying in a grave) long after the invention and use of spoked wheeled chariots. Historically we know flat wheeled carts and vehicles were used right into historical times.<br /><br />Incidentally, because google has recently changed their settings, I don't get mails of comments to my blogs in my normal mail-box: I have to enter my blog and search for mails, so it is possible I may not be able to reply to comments and questions as easily and frequently as before. Shrikant Talagerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15700049337974422213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-18330887019725145592018-06-12T08:01:34.971-07:002018-06-12T08:01:34.971-07:00Hello Sir, can you please give your opinion on thi...Hello Sir, can you please give your opinion on this Bronze age Chariot found in UP?<br /><br />https://www.news18.com/news/india/in-a-first-chariot-from-pre-iron-age-found-in-excavation-in-uttar-pradeshs-sanauli-1768085.html<br /><br />It is also found in Ganga Valley, not Sindhu valley. I think a more ancient civilization existed along the Ganga Valley, which is buried deep inside.Samurai Jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00522324215317108756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-29647126882503315042018-06-11T08:52:39.521-07:002018-06-11T08:52:39.521-07:00Exactly, this seems to be a very strong evidence, ...Exactly, this seems to be a very strong evidence, which proves that chariots and therefore horses existed in india from around 2500 bc. This warrior class must have taken some 500 years to fully develop, with royal burials, weaponary, chariots and everything.. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07122808067981535091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-38342014741793071752018-06-10T11:14:12.990-07:002018-06-10T11:14:12.990-07:00Shrikant,
Latest news from Indian archaeology sho...Shrikant,<br /><br />Latest news from Indian archaeology shows that bronze age era chariots have been found in sanauli, uttar Pradesh, dated between 2000 bc to 1800 bc. The news came out a few days back.<br />It seems to put another nail in the coffin of ait. If chariots were present East of the saraswati at that time, it is proof that Harappan civilization had chariots. Baji Rao 1https://www.blogger.com/profile/15229580294036811942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-56863272526587308642018-06-04T23:21:41.832-07:002018-06-04T23:21:41.832-07:00Sir, what's your opinion regarding Dr Liny Sri...Sir, what's your opinion regarding Dr Liny Srinivasan's books?<br /><br />1.Desi Words Speak of the Past: Indo-Aryans in the Ancient Near East<br />2.Crete to Egypt: Missing Links of the Rigveda<br />3.Near Eastern Deities in the Rigveda<br /><br />According to him everything in Indian text from Vedas to Puranas & Epics are actually of middle eastern origin.arish108https://www.blogger.com/profile/13426868500839924438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-16999995646802552612018-06-04T07:39:02.844-07:002018-06-04T07:39:02.844-07:00https://www.news18.com/amp/news/india/in-a-first-c...https://www.news18.com/amp/news/india/in-a-first-chariot-from-pre-iron-age-found-in-excavation-in-uttar-pradeshs-sanauli-1768085.html<br /><br />Finally. Archeological evidence of chariots in Bronze Age India is found.<br /><br />OIT theory gets reinforced with this new finding.Sujithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963064339157270188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-45337982709708683442018-05-27T04:12:18.934-07:002018-05-27T04:12:18.934-07:00Shrikant,
In puranas, there is the concept of ma...Shrikant, <br /><br />In puranas, there is the concept of manvantaras, where for each manvantara, there is a separate manu for each. Manu vaivasvata is supposed to be the manu of the vaivasvata manvantara, which is our own manvantara. In your opinion, what is the chronological positions of figures like prithu, prahlada,hiranyakashipu ect who are supposed to have lived before the manu vaivasvat? Are they historical people or just myths? Is manu vaivasvat historical or a mythical person? What is the connection between these pre-manu figures and post manu vaivasvat tribes like druhyu,anu, pure,ect?<br />What is their position in vedic history if they were historical figures?Baji Rao 1https://www.blogger.com/profile/15229580294036811942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-36738366353654482782018-05-22T05:16:22.512-07:002018-05-22T05:16:22.512-07:00Shrikant,
The Aryan invasion advocates don't ...Shrikant,<br /><br />The Aryan invasion advocates don't realize how sloppy their claims are when they claim that the rig Veda was composed starting around 1200 bc. Between 1200 bc and 600 bc, when the Buddhist period starts, is an interval of some 600 years. The question is could all the ten books of the rig Veda have been completed within just a period of 600 years? Considering the internal historical information and the total number of generations of rulers and composers, how many centuries do the Aryan invasionists claim it took to complete the rig Veda? Because the language of rig Veda is in an archaic form of Sanskrit whereas the Sanskrit by the time of Buddhist period, is a much more evolved/changed form of sanskrit. The vedic period clearly preceded the Buddhist period. According to your estimate, it took around 2000 years for completing the rig Veda. How many years do the ait advocates claim it took to complete the rig Veda? Baji Rao 1https://www.blogger.com/profile/15229580294036811942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-75585403191359459962018-05-18T18:53:16.319-07:002018-05-18T18:53:16.319-07:00An interesting point to consider would be during t...An interesting point to consider would be during the Mahabharata war,did any Anu/Iranian kings participate and if so, whether the Avesta tells us which king did so? Along with Vedas and Purana's, the Avesta should also be taken into account while reconstructing the details of ancient vedic history.Baji Rao 1https://www.blogger.com/profile/15229580294036811942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-71457100953332477962018-05-18T18:31:38.757-07:002018-05-18T18:31:38.757-07:00Shrikant,
Thanks for clarifying the matter.
Books...Shrikant,<br /><br />Thanks for clarifying the matter.<br />Books 9 and 10 were likely composed after the mittani emigrated from india, over a period of about 700 years, from 2200 bc to 1500 bc. Also is parikshit, grandson of the pandavas mentioned in the atharva veda? <br />Baji Rao 1https://www.blogger.com/profile/15229580294036811942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-90114101627321446562018-05-18T16:45:31.110-07:002018-05-18T16:45:31.110-07:00I wrote in my blog on "The use of 'astron...I wrote in my blog on "The use of 'astronomical' Evidence" as follows:<br />"As to when the Late period started, all that can be said is that the Late books of the Rigveda can be again divided into three groups: book 5 is undoubtedly the oldest of the Late books, and stands out from the rest in being a family book, in having the pankti meter (but not yet the mahāpankti and śakvarī), and in being still unacquainted with western animals, places, lakes and mountains. Book 10 is undoubtedly the latest, being distinguished from all the other nine books in countless ways. And books 1,8,9 form a group between these two books. The only question now is: did the ancestors of the Mitanni kings migrate from India during the period of composition of book 5, or the period of books 1-8-9, or the period of book 10? In effect, the later, within the Late period, they migrated from India, the further back from 2000 BCE the Late period can be speculated to have started. But even if they left in the earliest of the three periods, the period of book 5, the starting point of the Late Rigvedic period still goes back beyond 2000 BCE at the latest. [The rare name Indrota, common to the Mitanni records and book 8, however, would indicate that the Mitanni left well after the period of book 8, and this pushes the beginnings of the Late Rigvedic period much further back]."<br /><br />Book 10 (and most of Book 9) were probably composed after the Mitanni left India. Book 10 contains a reference to Santanu (great-grandfather of the Kauravas and Pandavas) in a hymn composed by his brother Devapi, probably somewhere in the middle of the second millennium BCE.Shrikant Talagerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15700049337974422213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488245879483190185.post-90244587107968958302018-05-18T10:18:10.340-07:002018-05-18T10:18:10.340-07:00Shrikant,
Is it possible that the late vedic cul...Shrikant, <br /><br />Is it possible that the late vedic culture started developing in book 5, carrying through part of book 1 and more or less completing it's development in book 8,prior to the ancestors of the mittani taking this developed late vedic culture with them and migrating from india around 2200 bc, with the last two books, namely book 9 and book 10 being composed in a post mittani emigration period from 2200 bc onwards, continuing to reflect the already fully developed late vedic culture? If so,approximately how many centuries did it take for book 9 and book 10 to be completed, separately each? <br /><br />Baji Rao 1https://www.blogger.com/profile/15229580294036811942noreply@blogger.com