[This is a word-document form of the power-point presentation that I made for my talk (or series of three talks) on "The Complete Linguistic Case for the Out-of-India Theory" given and uploaded on youtube on 25-8-2021, 1-9-2021 and 8-9-2021 respectively, for the Kushal Mehra Podcast].
THE COMPLETE LINGUISTIC CASE
FOR THE OUT-OF-INDIA THEORY
(OIT)
Versus
The totally Fake and Fraudulent
Linguistic Case for the Aryan-
Invasion/Migration-Theory (AIT/AMT)
The "Aryan" Issue is purely Linguistic-1
• There was never any record or tradition or belief anywhere
in India or in the world that any race called "Aryans" ever
existed, let alone came into India from outside.
• The "Aryan" concept came into existence when European
colonial scholars in India discovered the linguistic family
relationship between North Indian, Central Asian, Iranian
and European languages after their discovery of the
Sanskrit language and grammar and initial comparison with
Greek and Latin.
• This led to the realization that these languages constituted
one family and must have had a common origin in a
common ancestral language and a common ancestral
Homeland. They initially gave the self-appellation
ārya/airya in the oldest texts, the Rigveda and Avesta, as
the name for the family (later changed to Indo-European).
The "Aryan" Issue is purely Linguistic-2
• The AIT is based on the following beliefs:
• 1. The original Proto-Indo-European language was spoken
in the Steppes of South Russia. It had twelve branches
which migrated from this homeland in due course.
• 2. The "Indo-Iranians" were one group of two branches
which migrated from South Russia to Central Asia over a
period of time where they developed a common culture
before separating in different directions.
• 3. The Indo-Aryan branch migrated into the Punjab, where
it settled down and developed the Vedic culture, and
where the Rigveda was composed, before spreading out
into the rest of North India over a period of centuries. The
Indo-Aryan languages are descended from the Vedic
language which gradually developed into Classical Sanskrit.
• 4. The original languages of India were "non-Aryan".
The "Aryan" Issue is purely Linguistic-3
• The twelve known branches of Indo-European
languages (from the west) are: Italic, Celtic, Germanic,
Baltic, Slavic, Illyrian (Albanian), Thraco-Phrygian
(Armenian), Hellenic (Greek), Anatolian (Hittite),
Iranian, Tocharian, Indo-Aryan.
• There is absolutely no archaeological identification
anywhere of the original Proto-Indo-Europeans, Indo-
Iranians, or even the Vedic Indo-Aryans in India to this
date as no suspected site has yielded readable records.
• So the AIT case is based wholly and solely on the basis
of linguistic arguments (sought to be corroborated by
textual analysis, a totally separate issue).
The Real Genuine Linguistic Case
• The entire AIT case is based on linguistic arguments,
but every single one of these arguments is either naïve
and childish or fake and fraudulent and an examination
of each argument in fact proves the OIT.
• Here we will examine and dissect all the known
linguistic AIT arguments and I challenge anyone to
disprove our case or to produce a single other new (or
old, but inadvertently missed out here) linguistic
argument which will prove the AIT case.
• The reaction is predicted here: The AIT side will simply
ignore and stonewall the whole debate, or reduce it
to a slanging match and name-calling campaign in
order to sabotage the debate itself!
First: The Old Childish arguments-1
• First, let us deal with certain old and very childish
arguments which are still being made!
• 1. There are non-IE languages in India. If the IE languages
originated in India, the "Aryans" would have first
"aryanized" India before spreading out.
• 2. There are more IE branches in Europe than in India.
• 3. The Homeland should be a geographically central area.
• 4. If the other IE branches emigrated from India, they
would have taken with them some purely Indian features,
which they have not, such as (a) names for purely Indian
animals and plants, and (b) the distinction between dental
(त, द, न, ल) and cerebral (ट, ड, ण, ळ) sounds.
[Incredibly, ideologically diverse "scholars" like Witzel,
Manasataramgini and Devdutt Pattanaik, among others,
make this last mentally deficient argument!].
First: The Old Childish arguments-2
• These arguments are not even linguistic arguments: they
are simply illogical and childish arguments, which, on
examination, even go against rather than with what does
actually occur in the world in such situations:
• 1. Languages usually leave their surrounding areas
untouched even when they spread into distant areas:
English linguistically anglicized almost the whole of
Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the USA, while Scots
Gaelic, Welsh and Irish still exist on the British Isles. And
Spain linguistically hispanicized the major part of Central
and South America without being able to replace the
non-IE Basque language within the borders of Spain itself.
• Any hypothetical "Homeland" in the Steppes will also have
similarly left the Caucasian, Uralic and Altaic languages
within and close to its own area "unaryanized".
First: The Old Childish arguments-3
• 2. (a) The Dravidian family has every single branch only in South
India (NW Brahui is also now accepted by linguists as having
migrated from South India). Yet linguists postulate or speculate that
the Dravidian family originated in West Asia where not a single
branch is historically recorded as ever having been spoken!
• (b) The Steppes have only one branch: Slavic. Europe has seven
branches. Yet the Steppes are postulated as the Homeland, not
Europe. [The NWIndia-CAsia cluster has three branches, plus
archaic Kentum Bangani and archaic Sinhalese further inside India].
• (c) The greatest diversity of Sino-Tibetan languages is in NE India.
• (d) As per Johanna Nichols' path-breaking study, "The structure of
the family tree, the accumulation of genetic diversity at the
western periphery of the range, the location of Tocharian and its
implications for early dialect geography, the early attestation of
Anatolian in Asia Minor, and the geography of the centum-satem
split all point in the same direction: a locus in western central
Asia… in the vicinity of ancient Bactria-Sogdiana".
First: The Old Childish arguments-4
• 3. Languages actually spread out more generally in one
direction, rather than from a central area in all directions.
As Koenraad Elst points out: "most languages that
expanded, did so from a far corner of their later expanse:
Russian from Kiev eastwards, Arabic from Arabia
northwestwards, Bantu from West Africa southeastwards.
People do not migrate symmetrically because the reasons
for migrating are not symmetrical: the appeal of one side
is different from the appeal of the other side". Or
elsewhere: "Most languages or language families that
have spread (Amerind, Austronesian, Bantu, Arabic,
Russian) have done so from a far corner of their historical
speech area (Canada, Taiwan, West Africa, Arabia,
Ukraine); a symmetrical expansion is simply unheard of,
because the reason why people or languages migrate is
rarely symmetrical."
First: The Old Childish arguments-5
• 4. This is the most fraudulent argument of all: Indo-Aryan
and European languages generally have common names for
plants and animals which are found in both India and
Europe, so absence of Indian names should not in itself
disprove movement from India. But the thing is:
• (a) European languages actually have preserved names for
Indian animals not found in Europe:
• ape: Skt. kapi, Greek kepos.
• leopard: Skt. pṛdāku, Greek pardos, Persian fars, Hittite
paršana.
• elephant/ivory: Skt. ibha, Greek erepa/elephas, Latin ebur,
Hittite laḫpa. (and with shift in meaning, Gothic ulbandus).
• [From root ṛabh/labh (=rbha/ḷbha) "to grasp", so same
etymology as Sanskrit hastin. India is the only IE language
speaking area which has elephants].
First: The Old Childish arguments-6
• (b) The IE languages of Europe and West Asia had left 4000-
5000 years ago after a long sojourn in the northwestern
border areas of India, where they could already have lost
the names for animals and plants of the interior areas of
India (and the distinction between dentals and cerebrals).
How does the absence of such names and features in
Europe show they did not move out from India, when the
Romany (gypsy) languages of Europe, which actually
belong to the Indo-Aryan branch, and which everyone
accepts migrated from the interior of India just over 1000
years ago, have also not preserved names for Indian plants
and animals (not even ape, leopard or elephant) or the
distinction between dental and cerebral sounds?
• What does one conclude about the level of intelligence and
honesty of "scholars" who put forward this argument?
Linguistic Paleontology-1
• The oldest arguments for the AIT are based on the reconstruction
of the geographical environment of the Original Homeland on the
basis of common words found in geographically distinct and distant
branches, e.g.:
• There is the "salmon argument": salmon are found only in rivers
flowing into the Atlantic and Baltic seas, and there is a common
word for them in the IE languages.
• Also, "some clues regarding where the Proto-Indo-European
languages had been spoken: the Indo-European languages had
words for certain flora and fauna (bears and beech trees are well-
known examples). By plotting on a map the natural environment
of these diagnostic flora and fauna, philologists established that
the Indo-European Homeland was a fairly primitive place in the
temperate zone" (DYENS 1988:4).
• "Generally, the PIE plants and animals are those of the temperate
climate" (WITZEL 2005:372), and that in the Rigveda "words such
as those for 'wolf' and 'snow' rather indicate linguistic memories
of a colder climate" (WITZEL 2005:373).
Linguistic Paleontology-2
• 1. Salmon: A word *lóks is reconstructed from
Germanic-Baltic-Slavic words for the salmon,
Armenian and Ossetic words for the trout, and
the Tocharian word for fish (sought to be
connected with the Sanskrit words lakṣa =lakh
and lākṣā =lac). However this weak argument is
generally rejected nowadays, and the word (in an
OIT scenario) could well be a general word for
fish developed in Central Asia among the
emigrating branches from India, later transferred
to the most prominent fishes in the subsequent
areas of the migrating branches.
Linguistic Paleontology-3
• 2. Beech: Beech trees are found only in Europe, and the so-
called PIE word for the beech tree is also found only in
Europe! The cognate words for "beech", from the
reconstructed PIE form *bhaHk'o-, are found only in the
five European branches (Italic, Celtic, Germanic, Baltic,
Slavic), and even among them, the Baltic and Slavic forms
seem to be borrowed from Germanic (GAMKRELIDZE
1995:534). Greek and Albanian have different words for
"beech", and the forms which seem to be derived from
*bhaHk'o- mean "oak". The word is totally missing in all the
Asiatic branches: Anatolian, Tocharian, Armenian, Iranian
and Indo-Aryan.
• And yet, a "beech argument" is being discussed since over
a century, claiming that a common proto-form for "beech"
proves a "temperate zone" European Homeland!
Linguistic Paleontology-4
• 3. Bears: a) Europe proper has only one species of bear,
ursus arctos (the old world brown bear). And ursus
maritimus (the polar bear) is restricted to the arctic areas,
though this does include Scandinavia.
• India has four species of bears, ursus arctos (the old world
brown bear), ursus thibetanus (the Himalayan black bear),
helarctos malayanus (the Malayan sun bear), and melursus
ursinus (the Indian sloth bear), and a fifth species,
ailuropoda melanoleuca (the panda bear of Tibet and
China) is found to its immediate north.
• b) The PIE root *h2ṛetk- from which the common words for
bear are derived (PIE *h2ṛtkos-, Vedic ṛkṣa-, Avestan arəšə-,
Greek arktos, Latin ursus, Old Irish art, Armenian ar, Hittite
hartagga) "is otherwise seen only in Skt. rakṣas-
'destruction, damage, night demon'" (MALLORY-ADAMS
2006:138) but nowhere in the other eleven branches!
Linguistic Paleontology-5
• 4. Wolf: the wolf is as much a native of the
major part of India as of Steppe or European
areas with cold or temperate climates. When
Rudyard Kipling wrote the Jungle Book,
featuring a boy called Mowgli raised in the
jungle by wolves, he was talking about an
Indian boy raised in an Indian jungle by Indian
wolves. Although Kipling actually was from
Britain, the wolves in his story did not
represent "linguistic memories" of British
wolves.
Linguistic Paleontology-6
• 5. Snow: a) "snow" is found in India as much as in the western
areas. As per the Encyclopaedia Britannica, India has "the largest
area, outside of the Polar regions, under permanent ice and
snow": the Himalayas.
• b) The word hima, in 10 verses in the Rigveda (I.34.1; 64.14; 116.8;
119.6; II.33.2; V.54.15; VI.48.8; VIII.73.3; X.37.10; 68.10), means
"winter" (also not a "linguistic memory": it is a season occuring in
every corner of India, as in, e.g., Marathi hivāḷā). Further, in 4 of the
references, the verses talk about the Indian winter offering relief
from the burning heat of the Indian summer.
• c) And hima in the meaning of "snow" is also not a "linguistic
memory": it is mentioned in the Rigveda only twice in the New
Rigveda, after the Vedic Aryans expanded westwards past the
Punjab into Afghanistan and the northwestern Himalayas from their
Haryana homeland: in X.121.4 (a reference to the snow-covered
mountains of the Himalayas or the northwest) it means snow, and
in another reference, in VIII.32.26, it could possibly refer to a
weapon made of ice.
Linguistic Paleontology-7
• So clearly, none of the words argued to indicate a non-
Indian "temperate" Homeland in the Steppes or in
Europe actually prove the AIT or disprove the OIT.
• In fact, as we saw, the common words for the ape,
leopard, and especially elephant/ivory, show that the
PIE geographical environment was Indian, and that the
migrating branches 5000 years ago had actually taken
specifically Indian words with them to the west, even
when the Indo-Aryan Romany (gypsies) undisputedly
migrating from India just 1000 or so years ago did not!
• So Linguistic Paleontology, the most important and
persistent linguistic argument of the Old School,
actually proves the OIT and disproves the AIT.
The Isoglosses-1
• Linguistic Isoglosses are linguistic (grammar, phonology, vocabulary)
features which developed in a particular geographical area. They
can influence or extend to unrelated neighboring languages
• A distinction between cerebral sounds (ṭ, ḍ, ḷ, ṇ) as opposed to
dental sounds (t, d, l, n) is primarily found only in India. Of these,
the sound "ḷ" is found only in the Dravidian languages of South India
and in neighboring languages (Konkani, Marathi, Gujarati, Oriya)
but is missing in most of North India. (Another cerebral "ḷ" sound,
commonly written as zh, is found only in the extreme south: in
Tamil and Malayalam).
• Click sounds are originally found only in the Khoisan languages of
South Africa, but in time have been borrowed by unrelated
languages in their neighborhood : some Bantu languages (Zulu,
Xhosa, Gciriku, Yei) and a Cushitic language (Dahalo).
• Absence of nasal vowels is a southern isogloss, originally confined
to the Dravidian languages, but extending to the southernmost
Indo-Aryan language Marathi (but not to Konkani which came from
the north after the isogloss had spread to Marathi)
The Isoglosses-2
• The Isoglosses shared by different branches of IE can
show the order of migration of the branches from the
Homeland:
• 1. Except Hittite, the other 11 branches share a large
number of basic linguistic features, which show that
Hittite was the first to migrate from the Homeland,
after which the other 11 branches developed those
features which are missing in the Hittite branch.
• 2. 5 branches (Indo-Aryan, Iranian, Armenian, Greek,
Albanian) share certain late features missing in the
other 7 branches, which show that these 5 branches
had remained in the Homeland and developed these
features after the migration of the other 7 branches.
The Isoglosses-3
• A study of the linguistic isoglosses shared by the different
branches can indicate not only the order of migration but
also the location of that Original Homeland.
• The AIT supporting linguist H.H.Hock admits that while any
"'Sanskrit-origin' hypothesis" (which holds Sanskrit=PIE)
"runs into insurmountable difficulties, due to the
irreversible nature of relevant linguistic changes [….but….]
the likelihood of the 'PIE-in-India' hypothesis cannot be
assessed on the basis of similar robust evidence" (HOCK
1999a:2): "The 'PIE-in-India' hypothesis is not as easily
refuted as the 'Sanskrit-origin' hypothesis, since it is not
based on 'hard-core' linguistic evidence, such as sound
changes, which can be subjected to critical and definitive
analysis. Its cogency can be assessed only in terms of
circumstantial arguments, especially arguments based on
plausibility and simplicity" (HOCK 1999a:12).
The Isoglosses-4
• In short, there is really no linguistic argument which proves
the AIT or disproves the OIT: the case can only be assessed
only on the basis of "circumstantial arguments, especially
arguments based on plausibility and simplicity".
• And the only linguistic argument he puts forward "based on
plausibility and simplicity", as clinching the AIT case and
disproving the OIT case, is the argument based on the
evidence of the Isoglosses. According to him the pattern of
the Isoglosses proves the AIT and disproves the OIT.
• However, Hock's case is made up of flawed arguments, and
an examination of the actual Evidence of the Isoglosses, in
fact, shows (see my book "The Rigveda and the Avesta –
The Final Evidence" 2008, chapter 7) that the "PIE-in-India
hypothesis" is the only hypothesis which explains all the
isoglosses and all the existing linguistic facts and evidence
in the AIT-vs.-OIT debate.
The Isoglosses-5
• Shared Isoglosses between two branches, or among
several branches, indicates proximity in the Original
Homeland: i.e. branches sharing isoglosses must have
been adjacent or geographically contiguous to each
other in the Original Homeland.
• Hock produces a map-diagram to argue that the
present-day relative geographical position of the
branches vis-à-vis each other is the same as the
original relative geographical position of the branches
in the Original Homeland vis-à-vis each other as
indicated by the Isoglosses: i.e. branches closest to
each other today, or in the same part (e.g. northwest)
of the present IE world today, were also originally
closest to each other or in the same part (northwest) of
the Original Homeland as per the Isoglosses.
The Isoglosses-6
• Hock's claim is that if the 12 branches are arranged in the
Original Homeland in a pattern similar to their historically
earliest-recorded geographical pattern (e.g. Indo-Aryan and
Iranian to the extreme southeast, Germanic and Celtic to
the northwest in their present relative geographical
positions, and so on) all the Isoglosses fit in perfectly, so
that the most likely solution is a central location for the
Original Homeland: "if we accept the view that Proto-Indo-
European was spoken somewhere within a vast area 'from
East Central Europe to Eastern Russia' (HOCK & JOSEPH
1996:523), […] all we need to assume is that the Indo-
European languages by and large maintained their relative
positions to each other as they fanned out from the
homeland. In that case, however, the speakers of Indo-
Aryan must have migrated out of an original Eurasian
homeland and into India." (HOCK 1999a:16-17).
The Isoglosses-7
• However, he claims, if the Homeland is postulated in India,
it would be impossible to explain the present relative
geographical pattern of the 12 branches:
• "What would have to be assumed is that the various Indo-
European languages moved out of India in such a manner
that they maintained their relative position to each other
during and after the migration. However, given the bottle-
neck nature of the route(s) out of India, it would be
extremely difficult to do so.
• […] Alternatively, one would have to assume that after
moving out of India, the non-Indo-Aryan speakers of Indo-
European languages realigned in a pattern that was
substantially the same as their dialectological alignment
prior to migration ― a scenario which at best is
unnecessarily complex and, at worst, unbelievable" (HOCK
1999a:16-17).
The Isoglosses-8
• Hock's case would have been unassailable, if it had been
honest:
• To give an analogy, the major Dravidian languages are
distributed within India aligned in a certain pattern: Brahui
(northwest), and Kurukh and Malto (northeast) in the
North. And in the South, the southernmost belt of Tamil
(southeast) and Malayalam (southwest). There is a Central
belt of Kannada and Tulu (in the west, with Tulu in the
southwestern corner of this belt) and Telugu (in the east).
• Now, if all these languages migrated out of India through
the northwest, and settled down in a large part of Europe
or Africa, would they settle down there "realigned in a
pattern that was substantially the same as their
dialectological alignment prior to migration" (Tamil to the
southeast, Malayalam to the southwest, and so on)?
• Obviously not!
The Isoglosses-9
• However, Hock's case is not an honest one:
• 1. He pointedly excludes from his arrangement one crucial branch,
Tocharian, on the plea that "it is difficult to find dialectal
affiliation" (HOCK 1999a:16) for it.
• Tocharian shares certain important isoglosses with Anatolian
(Hittite) and Italic. Now, Tocharian is found at the north-eastern
corner of the Indo-European world and Italic at the opposite south-
western corner. Hittite is at the south-central edge, but separated
from Italic (even if we treat the landscape as a flat piece of paper)
by Greek and Albanian (not taken in Hock's diagram).
• In no way can Hittite, Tocharian and Italic be shown to be sharing
these important isoglosses with each other in contiguous areas in
the Original Homeland and then "maintaining their relative
positions to each other as they fanned out from the [centrally
located] homeland" to their respective earliest attested areas.
• So Hock simply ignores the concerned isoglosses, and excludes
Tocharian from his arrangement, and crosses his fingers in the hope
that no-one notices
The Isoglosses-10
• 2. In fact, Hock leaves out a large number of important isoglosses in
his "dialectological arrangement" diagram of the 12 branches since
each of these isoglosses links together branches which are at
distant geographical locations and could not have been spoken in
contiguous areas in the Original Homeland. e.g. Hittite, Tocharian
and Italic are the dialects which were the first, second and third,
respectively, to migrate from the Original Homeland; and they share
a few isoglosses almost exclusively with each other.
• Hittite was the first branch to separate completely from the rest,
and all the Other 11 branches together developed certain
fundamental features in common which are missing in Hittite (even
leading some linguists to postulate a Indo-Hittite family with two
primary groups: 1) Hittite and 2) the Other 11 Branches).
• So any isoglosses shared by Hittite with some, but not all, of these
other branches, are formed only after this initial separation, and
could therefore only have been formed outside this common exit
point in different stages when those particular branches were also
moving out of the common homeland.
The Isoglosses-11
• The logical explanation for the Isoglosses: Hittite was the first
branch to separate completely from the rest, and all the other
branches together developed certain fundamental features in
common which are missing in Hittite (even leading some linguists
to postulate a major division of IE languages into two primary
groups: Hittite, vs. the Other 11 Branches).
• So any isoglosses shared by Hittite with some, but not all, of these
other branches, are formed only after this initial separation, and
could therefore only have been formed outside this common exit
point in different stages when those particular branches were also
moving out of the common homeland.
• So the isoglosses were not formed within the Homeland with the
branches "maintaining their relative positions to each other as
they fanned out from the [centrally located] homeland" but within
the Original + Secondary Homeland due to interaction between the
dialects in an area near or after a common exit point from this
Original Homeland as they moved away from that homeland into
the Secondary Homeland.
The Isoglosses-12
• Dialects exiting from the Original Homeland clearly exited
into a neighboring area which functioned as a Secondary
Homeland outside the exit point of the Original Homeland).
• In the OIT, the area (Haryana to Afghanistan) to the south of
the great mountain complex (separating Central Asia from
South Asia) represents the Original Homeland and Central
Asia represents the Secondary Homeland.
• Indian historical tradition and the Rigveda jointly record
that (a) the Druhyus migrated westwards from the Punjab
into Afghanistan in the pre-Rigvedic period and later
migrated outwards in stages into Central Asia and beyond,
and (b) the Anus later migrated westwards from the Punjab
into Afghanistan in the Early Rigvedic period and later
spread out and migrated westwards in stages.
• [See my books and blogs for the details].
The Isoglosses-13 Gamkrelidze-1
• Gamkrelidze sketches out the linguistic scenario:
• He postulates "two major dialect areas: Area A,
comprising Anatolian-Tocharian-Italic-Celtic, and Area B,
comprising Indo-Iranian-Greek-Balto-Slavic-Germanic"
(Gamkrelidze 1995:346) in the Homeland area.
• These two dialect areas functioned independently:
"structural innovations appeared in Area A which united
all of its dialects in opposition to those of Area B"
(Gamkrelidze 1995:347).
• Likewise, "in Area B, we can distinguish several isoglosses
which affect almost the entire dialect area" (Gamkrelidze
1995:347). But Area B was also divided into two distinct
sub-areas of "more stable dialect groups in which Indo-
Iranian-Greek-Armenian were united as against Balto-
Slavic-Germanic. The dialect boundary is clearly reflected
in the distribution of isoglosses" (Gamkrelidze 1995:347).
The Isoglosses-14 Gamkrelidze-2
• But sometimes some isogloss which developed in, and
spread over, in Area A could also spill over into a dialect in
the adjacent part of Area B and vice versa: "A structural
trait that arose somewhere near the major dialect
boundary spread across that boundary to affect a region
at some distance on the other side […] It was still a single
linguistic system, subdivided into interacting dialect
regions" (Gamkrelidze 1995:346).
• Gamkrelidze basically sets out the general linguistic
schedule of formation of the IE isoglosses as the dialects
dispersed from the homeland, wherever that homeland be
situated.
• But, as we will see, right from the first step, of identifying
the exact geographical locales of Areas A and B, and the
two main sub-areas of Area B, only the Indian Homeland
explains all the isoglosses.
The Isoglosses-15 Gamkrelidze 3
• Gamkrelidze's Area B represents the Original
Homeland area from Haryana to Afghanistan (the two
sub-areas being Haryana-Punjab and Afghanistan
respectively), and Gamkrelidze's Area A represents
the Secondary Homeland area in Central Asia.
• Gamkrelidze's division clearly represents the stage
when (in that order) Hittite (Anatolian), Tocharian,
Italic and Celtic had already migrated into Central Asia
from Afghanistan; while the Baltic, Slavic and
Germanic branches formed the rearguard of this
Druhyu migration northwards, and were still in the
South with the 5 Last Branches.
• An examination of the different isoglosses between the
different branches presents us with the stages earlier
and later to the stage presented by Gamkrelidze.
The Isoglosses-16
• STAGE ONE:
• The Hittite (Anatolian) branch migrated northwards into Area A
(Central Asia) from Afghanistan. The other 11 branches in Area B to
the south acquired the following features in this stage:
• 1. Feminines in *ā, *ī, *ū.
• 2. Instrumental Plural masculine *-ois.
• 3. Independent deictic demonstrative pronouns *so, *sa, *tho (pl.
th)
• 4. If the laryngeal theory is right, they also lost the laryngeal
sounds.
• STAGE TWO:
• The Tocharian branch also moved northwards into Area A (Central
Asia).
• All the other historical dialects of IE, which continued to remain in
Area B to the south, developed in the course of time all the
common features of PIE mythology, religion, technology and culture
reconstructed by linguistic and cultural studies.
The Isoglosses-17
• STAGE THREE-1:
• Italic and Celtic , in that order, also exited into Area A (Central
Asia), where Anatolian was settled in the western part (western
Turkmenistan) and Tocharian in the eastern part (Kyrgyzstan).
• This is the most important stage in which the major divisions
between the different dialect groups were developed, and it is this
stage which Gamkrelidze portrays when he divides the Original
Homeland into "two major dialect areas: Area A, comprising
Anatolian-Tocharian-Italic-Celtic, and Area B, comprising Indo-
Iranian-Greek-Balto-Slavic-Germanic" (Gamkrelidze 1995:346).
• The dialects in Area A developed the following features:
• 1. The relative pronoun *khois: Anatolian, Tocharian, Italic.
• 2. The thematic genitive in -*ī: Tocharian, Italic, Celtic.
• 3. Subjunctives in *-ā, *-ē: Tocharian, Italic, Celtic.
• 4. Middles in *-r: Anatolian, Tocharian, Italic, Celtic.
• [Phrygian (Armenian) across the border in Area B also may have
acquired the last of the above isoglosses].
The Isoglosses-18
• STAGE THREE-2:
• The dialects in Area B developed the following features:
• 1. Middles in *-oi/*-moi: All the dialects.
• 2. Comparison of adjectives in *thero, *is-tho: Germanic Greek-
Iranian-Indo-Aryan.
• 3. Loss of aspiration in voiced aspirated stops: Germanic-Baltic-
Slavic, Iranian.
• 4. Instrumental singular masculine *-o: Germanic-Baltic, Iranian-
Indo-Aryan.
• All the dialects in Area B-1 (Germanic-Baltic-Slavic) developed the
following isoglosses:
• 1. Thematic genitive in *-ō: All the dialects.
• 2. Genitive-ablative merger: All the dialects.
• 3. Oblique cases in *-m-: All the dialects.
• 4. Merger of *a and *o: All the dialects.
The Isoglosses-19
• STAGE THREE-3:
• All the dialects in Area B-2 (Albanian-Armenian-Greek-Iranian-
Indo-Aryan) developed the following isoglosses:
• 1. Thematic genitive in *-(o)syo: All the dialects.
• 2. Oblique cases in *-bhi-: All the dialects.
• 3. Athematic and thematic aorists: All the dialects.
• 4. Augmented forms: All the dialects.
• 5. Reduplicated presents: All the dialects.
• 6. The prohibitive negation *mē: All the dialects.
• 7. Conversion of *s>h of *s before vowels, of intervocalic *s, of *s
before and after certain sonants, but not of *s before or after a
stop: Armenian-Greek-Iranian. [Some western dialects of Indo-
Aryan show this trait partially: some dialects of Gujarati, and
Sinhalese which migrated to the South from the northwest].
• [These 5 Last Dialects developed their most distinctive features]
The Isoglosses-20 [Stage 3 map]
The Isoglosses-21
• STAGE FOUR-1: Germanic also exited into Area A (Central Asia).
• The Dialects in Area A developed the following features:
• 1. The alteration of dental clusters at morpheme boundaries: *tt>
ss: Italic-Celtic-Germanic.
• The Dialects in Area B developed the following features:
• 1. The alteration of dental clusters at morpheme boundaries: *tt>
st: Baltic-Slavic, Albanian-Greek-Armenian-Iranian.
• [Indo-Aryan alone retained the original *tt].
• 2. Satem assibilation, palatals>aspirated stops (>sibilants): Baltic-
Slavic (transitional area), Armenian-Iranian-Indo-Aryan (core area).
• 3. The "Ruki" rule: Baltic-Slavic (transitional area), Armenian-
Iranian-Indo-Aryan (core area).
• 4. Merger of PIE velars and labio-velars: Baltic-Slavic, Iranian-Indo-
Aryan (core area), Armenian (transitional area).
• 5. Locative plural in *-s-u, *-s-i: Baltic-Slavic, Greek-Iranian-Indo-
Aryan.
The Isoglosses-22
• STAGE FOUR-2:
• 1. Cognate forms of certain words peculiar to the Rigveda (and the
Avesta) are found outside "Indo-Iranian" only in Slavic (krṣṇa,
śyāva, bhaga, etc.).
• 2. Also, the root -druh in Baltic and Slavic has exactly the opposite
meaning (friend) that it has in Iranian and Indo-Aryan (enemy).
• 3. Gamkrelidze also refers to "lexical evidence" for "closely
interacting areas of satem languages which coincide with the
Armenian-Indo-Iranian and Balto-Slavic areas" (Gamkrelidze).
• STAGE FIVE:
• Baltic exited into Area A (Central Asia). Now Slavic was the only
Druhyu branch left in Area B.
• The Dialects in Area B developed the following features:
• 1. Genitive-locative dual in *-os: Slavic, Iranian-Indo-Aryan.
• 2. First person singular nominal in *-em: Slavic, Iranian-Indo-Aryan.
The Isoglosses-23
• STAGE SIX:
• Slavic also exited into Area A (Central Asia) in the wake of the trail
of the other Druhyu dialects moving northwards through Central
Asia and then westwards on the path that would lead them to
Europe.
• In Area A, the First Dialects Hittite (Anatolian) and Tocharian still
settled there developed certain features with the rearguard of the
departing Druhyus, Baltic-Slavic:
• 1. Modal forms in *-l- : Anatolian, Tocharian, Baltic-Slavic.
• 2. Middle present participle in *-mo-: Anatolian, Baltic-Slavic.
• In Area B, the Oldest Books of the Rigveda were being composed in
this period, and the Battle of the ten kings had started the exodus
of major Anu Iranian groups from the Greater Punjab into
Afghanistan.
• The other groups among the Anu, i.e. the Śimyu (Albanian), Alina
(Greek) and Bhrgu (Armenian-Phrygian), continued expanding or
migrating westwards from a more southern (to the Druhyus) route.
The Isoglosses-24
• It will be seen that Armenian-Phrygian, belonging to Area B, is the
only dialect in Area B to be occasionally affected by isoglosses of
Area A.
• It was probably the northernmost border dialect of Area B,
somewhere to the immediate south of Tajikistan, and therefore was
affected by any "structural trait that arose somewhere near the
major dialect boundary" in Area A and "spread across that
boundary" (Gamkrelidze).
• [This middle location also explains the universal presence of the
Phryge in every IE tradition: Vedic Bhṛgu, Greek phleguai, Celtic
Brigit, Germanic Bragi].
• Likewise, within Area B, some isoglosses are found at every stage
cutting across parts of the two sub-areas since Area B "was still a
single linguistic system, subdivided into interacting dialect
regions" and "the presence of shared structural features in
dialects belonging to different dialect subgroups [i.e. sub-areas] of
Area B […] can be interpreted as reflecting geographically adjacent
positions for these dialects" (Gamkrelidze)
The Isoglosses-Hock vs. OIT-1
• It will be seen that the complex relations of the 12 branches
developing common isoglosses in adjacent areas are impossible in
Hock's scenario where all the isoglosses developed in the
Homeland and the 12 branches then "by and large maintained
their relative positions to each other as they fanned out from the
homeland".
• However:
• 1. Our OIT scenario where the isoglosses developed in stages within
the Original + Secondary Homeland due to interaction between the
dialects as they moved away from the Original Homeland into the
Secondary Homeland explains all the isoglosses effectively, and in
geographical perspective, which no other homeland theory is able
to do.
• 2. Further it is not based on conjecture but is actual recorded
history, recorded in the historical traditions of India and backed by
the textual evidence of the data in the Rigveda and the Avesta. (see
my books and blogs for the details).
The Isoglosses-Hock vs. OIT-2
• 3. Our OIT scenario also explains the complete absence of any
Isoglosses connecting the First Branches Hittite and Tocharian with
Indo-Aryan and Iranian: the First Branches had departed into Area
A (Central Asia) long before the Oldest Books of the Rigveda; and
Indo-Aryan and Iranian (unlike the 5 European branches) did not
enter Area A (Central Asia) till well after the formative period of the
Isoglosses. The 5 European Branches started out from Area B and
then moved into Area A and therefore have isoglosses with both
the 5 Last Branches as well as the 2 First Branches.
• Hock's scenario, of branches maintaining their "relative positions to
each other as they fanned out from the homeland" does not
explain how the European branches (west in his dialectological
arrangement) have so many Isoglosses with the First Branches
(south and east in his dialectological arrangement) but Indo-Aryan
and Iranian (south-east in his dialectological arrangement) have
none.
The Isoglosses-Hock vs. OIT-3
• 4. There is also a linguistic clue which surprisingly fits like a glove
into the OIT paradigm of two migrations east to west (a northern
Druhyu one and a southern Anu one) even as it disproves an
extremely flawed but long-argued AIT argument.
• As per the AIT, Proto-Indo-European in the Steppes borrowed the
word for "wine" from Proto-Semitic to its south in West Asia (via
the Caucasus).
• However the facts prove exactly the opposite:
• 1. The borrowed Semitic word for "wine" is found in all the 9
western branches (1 First Branch Hittite, the 5 European Branches,
and 3 Last Branches Albanian, Greek and Armenian), but in none
of the 3 eastern branches (1 First Branch Tocharian and 2 Last
Branches Iranian and Indo-Aryan). This proves the word was
borrowed as the 9 western branches migrated from east to west.
• 2. These 9 western branches have borrowed from different forms of
the Semitic word as per their 3 separate migrations from the east:
Hittite from *wi(o)no, the 5 European Branches from *weino, and
the 3 Last Branches from *woino.
The Evolution of Numbers in India
• 1. Onge (Andamanese): 1: yuwaiya. 2: inaga. 3: irejidda. [more than
3: ilake].
• 2. Turi: 1-5: miad, baria, pea, punia, miadti
• 6-10: miadti-miad, miadti-baria, miadti-pea, miadti-punia, baranti
• 11-15: baranti-miad, baranti-baria, baranti-pea, baranti-punia,
peati
• 16-19: peati-miad, peati-baria, peati-pea, peati-punia
• 20, 40, 60, 80, 100: lekacaba, bar-lekacaba, pea-lekacaba, punia-
lekacaba, miadti-lekacaba.
• 3. Santali: 1-10: mit', bar, pɛ, pon, mɔrɛ, turūi, ēāe, irәl, arɛ, gɛl
• tens 20-90: bar-gɛl, etc. 100: mit-sae
• Other numbers: tens+khān+unit. [khān can be dropped].
• Thus: 11: gɛl khān mit', 21: bar-gɛl khān mit', 99: arɛ-gɛl khān arɛ
The Evidence of the IE Numbers-1
• A strong proof for the OIT and Indian Homeland is the
system of numbers in the Indo-European and the Dravidian
languages.
• All the IE languages have the decimal system (although the
Celtic Irish and Welsh languages have adopted the
vigesimal system from the non-IE Basque language native
to Europe)
• There are 4 stages of the decimal system:
• 1. Stage 1: 11 words for 1-10 and 100.
• 2. Stage 2: 19 words for 1-10, 20-90 and 100.
• 3. Stage 3: 28 words for 1-20, 30-90 and 100.
• 4. Stage 4: 100 words for 1-100.
• The above indicates the number of words one has to learn
separately, along with a regular systematic way to form
other in-between numbers from these words.
The Evidence of the IE Numbers-2
• Stage 1: with 11 words for 1-10 and 100.
• This stage is not found in IE, but it may be surmised that
this stage may have existed in PIE or pre-PIE.
• It is found in many languages of the world (typically
Chinese or Tibetan).
• e.g. Santali:
• 1-10: 1-10: mit, bar, pɛ, pon, mɔrɛ, turūi, ēāe, irәl, arɛ, gɛl.
• Tens 20-90: bar-gɛl, etc. 100: mit-sae.
• Other numbers regularly formed: tens+khān+unit.
• Thus: 11: gɛl khān mit, 21: bar-gɛl khān mit, 99: arɛ-gɛl
khān arɛ.
• [If English were in Stage 1: 11 would be "ten-one", 20
would be "two-ten", 21 would be "two-ten-one", etc.]
The Evidence of the IE Numbers-3
• Stage 2: with 19 words for 1-10, 20-90 and 100.
• Found in the earliest languages Tocharian, spoken
Sinhalese, Sanskrit. [PIE, Hittite systems unrecorded].
• It is found in many languages of the world (typically
Turkish).
• (a) Tocharian:
• 1-10: se, wi, trai, śtwer, piś, ska, sukt, okt, ñu, śak.
• Tens 20-90: 20=ikäm [other tens numbers not
recorded, but on the basis of 20, presumably they had
separate words].
• 11-19: 11: śak-se [12-19 not recorded, but on the basis
of 11, presumably they were simply juxtaposed].
• 100: [not recorded].
The Evidence of the IE Numbers-4
• Stage 2: with 19 words for 1-10, 20-90 and 100 (contd.).
• (b) Spoken Sinhalese:
• 1-9: eka, deka, tuna, hatara, pasa, haya, hata, aṭa,
navaya.
• Tens 10-100: dahaya, vissa, tisa, hatalisa, panasa,
hɛṭa, hɛttɛɛva, asūva, anūva, siyaya.
• Tens-stems 10-100: daha-, visi-, tis-, hatalis-, panas-,
hɛṭa-, hɛttɛɛ-, asū-, anū-, siya-.
• Other numbers regularly formed tens-stem + unit.
• Thus: 11: daha-eka, 21: visi-eka, 99: anū-navaya.
• [The only dilution is the existence of separate stems].
The Evidence of the IE Numbers-5
• Stage 2: with 19 words for 1-10, 20-90 and 100 (contd.).
• (c) Sanskrit:
• 1-9: eka, dvi, tri, catur, pañca, ṣaṭ, sapta, aṣṭa, nava.
• tens 10-100: daśa, viṁśati, triṁśat, catvāriṁśat, pañcāśat,
ṣaṣṭi, saptati, aśīti, navati, śatam.
• Other numbers: units-form+tens.
• [The tens do not undergo any change in combination, with
the sole exception of the word for 16, where -daśa
becomes -ḍaśa in combination with ṣaḍ-. And by the
regular Sanskrit phonetic rules of sandhi or word-
combination, in the unit-form+tens combinations for 80-, a-
+-a becomes ā, and i-+-a becomes ya, so 81: ekāśīti, 82:
dvyaśīti, etc.
• The only dilution is because of the highly inflectional nature
of Sanskrit].
The Evidence of the IE Numbers-6
• Stage 2: with 19 words for 1-10, 20-90 and 100 (contd.).
• Nevertheless Sanskrit is Stage 2 in spite of the inflection:
thus 11= eka + daśa= ekā-daśa, 12= dva + daśa= dvā-daśa.
21= eka + viṁśati = eka-viṁśati, 22= dva + viṁśati= dvā-
viṁśati.
• Compare English words for Stage 3 forms: 11= ten + one=
eleven vs. 21 (etc.) twenty + one (etc.) = twenty-one (etc.).
• Stage 2 differs from Stage 3 in that 1-19 in Stage 3 either
has independent words, or else 1-19 are formed in a
different way from 21-29, 31-39, etc.
• Note that Stage 2 is found in IE languages only in the
oldest stages of IE: Tocharian, Sanskrit, (PIE and Hittite
could be Stage 1 or 2) and Spoken Sinhalese (archaic, as
repeatedly illustrated by words like watura for water].
The Evidence of the IE Numbers-7
• Stage 3: 28 words for 1-20, 30-90 and 100.
• This is found in all the other 9 living branches of IE outside
India as well as in the one Indo-Aryan language outside
North India, Literary Sinhalese. And also in the Dravidian
languages. Except for stray other languages, no other
entire language family in the world is in stage three.
• e.g. English:
• 1-10: one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine,
ten.
• 11-19: eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen,
seventeen, eighteen, nineteen.
• Tens 20-100: twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, sixty, seventy,
eighty, ninety, hundred.
• Other numbers regularly formed tens + unit:
• Thus: 21: twenty-one, 99: ninety-nine.
The Evidence of the IE Numbers-8
• Stage 4: 100 words for 1-100.
• The modern Indo-Aryan languages of North India are the
only languages in the world belonging to Stage 4.
• In this stage, not only are there separate words for 1-19,
the tens 20-90 and 100, but each and every one of the
other numbers in between also have to be separately learnt
since the tens and units words are all fused together
arbitrarily and irregularly.
• Different changes take place in the tens forms and units
form in the numbers 21-99 e.g. Marathi:
• 1-9: ek, don, tīn, cār, pāç, sahā, sāt, āṭh, naū.
• 11-19: akrā, bārā, terā, çaudā, pandhrā, soḷā, satrā, aṭhrā,
ekoṇīs.
• tens 10-100: dahā, vīs, tīs, cāḷīs, pannās, sāṭh, sattar, aĩśī,
navvad, śambhar.
The Evidence of the IE Numbers-9
• Stage 4: 100 words for 1-100 (contd).
• Marathi Tens forms:
• 20 vīs: -vīs(21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28).
• 30 tīs: -tīs(29,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38).
• 40 cāḷīs: -cāḷīs(39,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48).
• 50 pannās: -pannās(49), -vanna(51,52,55,57,58),
• -panna (53,54,56).
• 60 sāṭh: - sāṭh(59), -saṣṭa(61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68).
• 70 sattar: -sattar(69), -hattar (71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78).
• 80 aĩśī: -aĩśī(79,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88).
• 90 navvad: -navvad(89),
• -ṇṇav (91,92,93,94,95,96,97,98,99).
The Evidence of the IE Numbers-10
• Stage 4: 100 words for 1-100 (contd).
• Marathi Units forms:
• 1 ek: ek- (21,31,61), ekke- (41), ekkyā- (81,91), ekkā- (51,71).
• 2 don: bā- (22,52,62,72), bat- (32), be- (42), byā- (82,92).
• 3 tīn: te- (23), teha- (33), tre- (43,53,63), tryā- (73,83,93).
• 4 cār: co- (24), çau- (34,54,64), çavve- (44), çauryā- (74,84,94).
• 5 pāç: pañc- (25), pas- (35), pañce- (45), pañçā- (55), pā- (65),
pañcyā (75,85,95).
• 6 sahā: sav- (26), chat- (36), sehe- (46), chap- (56), sahā- (66),
śahā- (76,86,96).
• 7 sāt: sattā- (27,57), sada- (37), satte- (47), sadu- (67), sattyā-
(77,87,97).
• 8 āṭh: aṭṭhā- (28,58), aḍ- (38), aṭṭhe- (48), aḍu- (68), aṭṭhyā-
(78,88,98).
• 9 naū: ekoṇ- (29,39,49,59,69,79,89), navvyā- (99).
The Evidence of the IE Numbers-11
• The same irregularity or inflectional complexity can be seen
in the formation of the numbers between 21 and 99 in all
the Indo-Aryan languages of North India (right up to
Kashmiri in the extreme north, and going so far westwards
as to influence the Pashto language in the northwest
which, although it belongs to the Iranian branch, has also
been influenced by the Indo-Aryan cerebral sounds), but is
found nowhere else outside the sphere of North India (not
even in Spoken or Literary Sinhalese to the South).
• This is in sharp contrast with all the other languages in the
world other than the Indo-Aryan languages of North India.
In all the other languages, it is necessary to learn by heart
at the most the numbers from 1-10, or from 1-19, and the
tens forms (20,30,40,50,60,70,80,90). All the other
numbers between 21 and 99 are formed from these
numbers by some sort of regular process.
]The Evidence of the IE Numbers-12
• 1. The second stage is found in the oldest Indo-European
branches: probably in Hittite, but certainly in Tocharian,
and in the oldest Indo-Aryan languages Sanskrit and
archaic (Spoken) Sinhalese.
• 2. The third stage is found in all the other 10 Indo-
European branches in India as well as in Dravidian. The
other 9 branches (and Indo-Aryan Sinhalese) migrated out
of North India in this stage: Italic, Celtic, Germanic, Baltic,
Slavic, Albanian, Greek, Armenian and Iranian.
• 3. The fourth stage developed in the Indo-Aryan languages
remaining in North India, but left the Dravidian languages
of South India unaffected.
• SUMMARY: 1.The first stage is unrecorded. 2. The second
stage is found only in and to the north and south of India.
3. All the other 10 branches (and Dravidian in India) are in
the third stage. 4. The fourth stage is found only in North India.
The Evidence of the IE Numbers-13
• Miscellaneous: The number "one":
• Incidentally, perhaps the words for "one" in the various IE branches
offers one more clue to the location of the Homeland:
• 1. There is a major division in the words for "one" between two
reconstructed proto-Indo-European words: *oi-no and *oi-ko,
which are prominent in 8 non-Indo-Iranian branches (Hittite ant-,
German eins, Latin unus, Old Irish oen, Latvian viens, Old Church
Slavic inu, Greek hena, Albanian një) and the 2 Indo-Iranian
branches (Sanskrit eka, Kashmiri akh, Modern Persian yak)
respectively.
• But note an "oino-oiko divide" in two other language families :
• a) Burushaski spoken in the heart of the Original Homeland area in
our OIT scenario. Burushaski "one"= hin / hik.
• b) Dravidian on- (Tamil onṛu, Malayalam onnu, Kannada ondu,
Tulu onji) and ok- (Telugu oka-, Parji okko, Naiki ok).
The Evidence of the IE Numbers-14
• Miscellaneous: The number "one" (contd.):
• 2. Two other words which seem to have served as, or
replaced, the word for "one" in some languages are the
words *sem ("same") and *oiwo ("only" or emphatic):
Hittite siy-, Tocharian sas/säm/se, Greek heis (masculine),
Avestan aēva, Pashto yaw, Bashgali yev. (Both the words
are found in Sanskrit: sama, eva).
• 3. That leaves the Greek mía (neuter) and the Armenian mi.
Compare the Austric (Kol-Munda) words for "one": Santali
mit, Mundari mií, Korku mīa, Kharia moi, Savara mi, Juang
min, Gadaba muirō. (Vietnamese môt, Khmer muǝy).
• All these words certainly seem to point towards India as the
Original Homeland.
Some non-linguistic evidence-1
• There is also plenty of other linguistic evidence for our OIT
case. But first some non-linguistic evidence for the 2 First
Branches:
• 1. Recorded evidence: Indian historical tradition
remembers two tribes or kingdoms in Central Asia exactly
located in the Tocharian and Hittite areas as per our case:
the Uttara-Kuru and Uttara-Madra respectively. Of these
the eastern Uttara-Kuru are clearly the Tocharians,
(Twghry in an Uighur text, and Tou-ch'u-lo or Tu-huo-lo in
ancient Chinese Buddhist texts). Uttara-Kuru is an obvious
Sanskritization of the native appellation of the Tocharians,
preserving, as closely as possible, what Henning calls "the
consonantal skeleton (dental + velar + r) and the old u-
sonant [which] appears in every specimen of the name"
(HENNING 1978:225).
Some non-linguistic evidence-2
• 2. Evidence of comparative Mythology: Indra (from the
word "indu" or "drop" of rain) is a peculiarly Vedic-Pūru
name for the thunder-god, with no cognates in (nine) other
branches. The name has been converted into the name of a
demon (again emphasizing his Vedic-Pūru identity) in the
Anu Iranian Avesta. However, the name is found in the
Hittite mythology as Inar/Inara.
• Hittite remembers the name in a garbled manner. Indra's
main feat is the killing of the Great Serpent who prevents
rainfall. Inar/Inara's main feat is the killing of the Great
Serpent who interferes with the activities of the weather-
god.
• The name is not a pan-IE name but a purely Vedic-Pūru
one. It could only have been borrowed by Hittite from
Indo-Aryan in a primeval period when Hittite (in Central
Asia) was close to the cultural sphere of the Vedic area.
Some non-linguistic evidence-3
• 3. Racial evidence: Hittite provides us with the only real case of
"racial" evidence in the entire IE debate: shortly after the discovery
of the IE identity of the Hittites in the early 20th century, a paper in
the Journal of the American Oriental Society makes the following
incidental observations: "While the reading of the inscriptions by
Hrozny and other scholars has almost conclusively shown that
they spoke an Indo-European language, their physical type is
clearly Mongoloid, as is shown by their representations both on
their own sculptures and on Egyptian monuments. They had high
cheek-bones and retreating foreheads." (CARNOY 1919:117).
• According to jewishencyclopedia.com, "The Hittites as shown both
on their own and on Egyptian monuments were clearly Mongoloid
in type. They were short and stout, prognathous, and had rather
receding foreheads. The cheek-bones were high, the nose was
large and straight, forming almost a line with the forehead, and
the upper lip protruded. They were yellow in color, with black hair
and eyes, and beardless, while according to the Egyptian paintings
they wore their hair in pigtails".
Linguistic Evidence: Loanwords-1
• 1. Johanna Nichols after a very detailed study summarizes:
• "Several kinds of evidence for the PIE locus have been presented
here. Ancient loanwords point to a locus along the desert
trajectory, not particularly close to Mesopotamia and probably far
out in the eastern hinterlands. The structure of the family tree,
the accumulation of genetic diversity at the western periphery of
the range, the location of Tocharian and its implications for early
dialect geography, the early attestation of Anatolian in Asia Minor,
and the geography of the centum-satem split all point in the same
direction [….] the long-standing westward trajectories of
languages point to an eastward locus, and the spread of IE along
all three trajectories points to a locus well to the east of the
Caspian Sea. The satem shift also spread from a locus to the
south-east of the Caspian, with satem languages showing up as
later entrants along all three trajectory terminals. (The satem shift
is a post-PIE but very early IE development). The locus of the IE
spread was therefore somewhere in the vicinity of ancient
Bactria-Sogdiana." (NICHOLS 1997:137).
Linguistic Evidence: Loanwords-2
• Nichols examines Semitic loanwords which entered the European
Branches of IE through the Caucasus, along with a large number of
linguistic criteria, and locates the "locus of the Indo-European
spread" in Central Asia. This is supported by other linguistic studies:
• 2. Chinese influence on the European Branches is dealt with by a
Chinese scholar: "Indo-Europeans had coexisted for thousands of
years in Central Asia [….] (before) they emigrated into Europe"
(CHANG 1988:33).
• 3. Gamkrelidze and Ivanov also deal with this point at length in
section 12.7 in their book, entitled "The separation of the Ancient
European dialects from Proto-Indo-European and the migration of
Indo-European tribes across Central Asia" (GAMKRELIDZE
1995:831-847), with borrowings from the Yeneseian and Altaic
languages into the European Branches and vice versa.
• Gamkrelidze and Ivanov are proponents of a Homeland in Anatolia,
but the linguistic evidence compels them to postulate a hypothetical
movement of the European Branches eastwards into Central Asia
before they moved out westwards towards Europe.
Linguistic Evidence- Other Families-1
• The geographical location of the Original Homeland is
also sought to be located with reference to features or
words found in Proto-Indo-European as well as in some
other Proto-language or Family, indicating proximity or
mutual influence in the earliest formative proto-stages
or in periods close to those earliest formative proto-
stages.
• The only Families which merit serious examination are:
• 1. Dravidian.
• 2. Semitic.
• 3. Austronesian.
4. Uralic.
Linguistic Evidence- Other Families-2
• 1. Dravidian:
• We already saw the evidence showing that after the exit of
the 2 Early Branches (Hittite and Tocharian), all the other
10 branches of Indo-European and the Dravidian
languages were jointly in the third stage of decimal
numbers, after which one Indo-Aryan language (Sinhalese)
and the 9 other branches migrated out of North India.
Except for stray other languages, no other entire language
family in the world is in stage three, so this development
could only have taken place in India.
• However, the Dravidian languages developed south of the
Vindhyas and the Indo-European languages north of the
Vindhyas, and there was little other active interaction
among the people till the period of the New Rigveda (the
Mature Harappan period).
• Nevertheless one feature must be noted.
Linguistic Evidence- Other Families-3
• 1. Dravidian (contd.):
• This feature is something no linguist has been able to
satisfactorily explain, and is therefore generally hushed up
in AIT analyses: the reflexive personal pronoun ("self")
*tan- found in Dravidian as well as in Sanskrit and Avestan.
• The word is clearly a Dravidian word: it is found in every
single Dravidian language, and even rhymes with other
pronouns, e.g. Tamil tān with nān.
• But tanū is found not only throughout the Rigveda, but also
in the Avesta (which fact has no explanation in any AIT
scenario except by a totally undocumented and unprovable
claim that Dravidian must have been spoken right up to
Afghanistan and Central Asia! But this still does not explain
why this is the only Dravidian word borrowed in Iranian).
• Any logical explanation can only be part of an OIT scenario.
Linguistic Evidence- Other Families-4
• 2. Semitic:
• Proto-Indo-European-Semitic connections in the Early
formative stages has been a popular AIT cottage industry.
• Gamkrelidze and Ivanov, in their bid to claim proto-Semitic
influence on PIE in its early stages, list seventeen potential
"loanwords" from Semitic. Mallory and Adams (pointing
out the limited dialectal distribution of many of these words
in the IE branches) reduce the list to four: "The more
significant Semitic-Indo-European comparisons are Proto-
Indo-European *medhu- 'honey': Proto-Semitic *mVtk-
'sweet'; Proto-Indo-European *tauros 'wild bull, aurochs':
Proto-Semitic *ṯawr 'bull, ox'; Proto-Indo-European
*septṁ 'seven': Proto-Semitic *sab'atum; and Proto-Indo-
European *wóinom 'wine: Proto-Semitic *wayn 'wine'"
(MALLORY-ADAMS 2006:82-83):
• One: We have already examined the word for "wine".
Linguistic Evidence- Other Families-5
• 2. Semitic (contd.):
• Two: The word for "wild bull/aurochs":
• The Proto-Semitic word *ṯawr 'bull, ox' is found in all the major
Semitic languages: Akkadian šȗru, Ugaritic ṯr, Hebrew šȏr, Syriac
tawrā, Arabic ṯawr, South Arabic ṯwr.
• In Indo-European, it is found in Italic (Latin taurus), Celtic (Irish
tarb), Germanic (Old Icelandic ƥjórr), Baltic (Lithuanian taũras),
Slavic (Old Slavic turǔ), Albanian (tarok) and Greek (taȗros). The
Hittite word for "bull" is not known(GAMKRELIDZE 1995:483), and
Armenian has borrowed a Caucasian form (tsul) for bull.
• As in the case of "wine" this Semitic loan for "bull" or "aurochs" is
completely missing in the three eastern branches Indo-Aryan,
Iranian and Tocharian. Again it illustrates the phenomenon of
migration of IE branches from east to west.
Linguistic Evidence- Other Families-6
• 2. Semitic (contd.):
• Three: The word for "honey":
• Claiming a Semitic origin for the PIE word *medhu- 'honey'
is an act of fervent faith rather than of logic:
• To begin with, Semitic has a different word for "honey" and
Indo-European has a different word for "sweet": PIE *swāt-
, Sanskrit svādu-, Greek hēdu-, English sweet, Tocharian
swār-, so this speculative claim assumes that PIE reached
across the Caucasus, borrowed the Semitic word for
"sweet" rather than the word for "honey", but used it
instead for "honey".
• Actually, a word meaning "sweet" is usually derived from
the word for "honey" and not vice versa: Sanskrit madhu-
ra from madhu, Hittite milittus from milit, Old Irish milis
from mil, etc. (or even Old English milisc from milith).
Linguistic Evidence- Other Families-7
• 2. Semitic (contd.):
• Three: The word for "honey" (contd.):
• IE languages have two words for "honey": from *medhu and
*meli(th). The AIT proponents call *medhu a "Semitic loan"
but *meli(th) "the native Indo-European word"
(GAMKRELIDZE 1995:771).
• However, the word *medhu is totally missing in 4 of the 5
branches which are actually inside the sphere of the Semitic
languages: Hittite, Armenian, Albanian and Italic (Latin), and
the fifth, Greek, (like 2 more branches Germanic and Celtic to
the northwest) also has *meli(th) for "honey" while *medhu
is retained for "mead" (the drink derived from honey).
• The 3 branches to the east (Tocharian, Iranian, Indo-Aryan)
only have *medhu for "honey" (as well as for "mead") while
the word *meli(th) is totally missing. So also Baltic and Slavic
which were the eastern rearguard of the European branches
well to the north away from the Semitic area.
Linguistic Evidence- Other Families-8
• 2. Semitic (contd.):
• Three: The word for "honey" (contd.):
• Linguistically, all the evidence shows that the word *medhu is totally
unconnected with Semitic. So what is the point sought to be made?
• The facts: a) "It is in the Mediterranean area that the transition from
primitive beekeeping to more evolved types first takes place. Here we
find the second stage, sylvestrian beekeeping, where bees are kept in
the forest, in specially carved hollows in trees or in hollow logs set up in
forest apiaries; we also find the third stage, domestic apiculture, where
domestic bees are kept in manufactured hives near the homeland"
(GAMKRELIDZE 1995:522).
• b) The common apiculture honey-bee "Apis mellifera is native to the region
comprising Africa, Arabia and the Near East up to Iran, and Europe up to
the Urals in the east and to southern Sweden and Estonia in the north…
its spread to the east was limited by mountains, deserts and other
barriers. […] The distribution of Apis mellifera was confined to this area
until c. AD 1600" (PARPOLA 2005:112).
Linguistic Evidence- Other Families-9
• 2. Semitic (contd.):
• Three: The word for "honey" (contd.):
• The assumption: "There can be no doubt that beekeeping and the
word for 'bee' are Proto-Indo-European, in view of the word for
'honey' in Indo-European, the developed beekeeping economy
among the Indo-Europeans, and the religious significance of the
bee in all the ancient Indo-European traditions", so they must have
got it from the Mediterranean area.
• The AIT conclusion: "The word [*medhu] entered East Asia
together with honey and beekeeping, brought in by Indo-
European tribes who migrated eastwards" (GAMKRELIDZE
1995:524).
• The AIT conclusion is not drawn from the facts but from the
assumption that there was a "developed beekeeping economy
[domestic apiculture] among the Indo-Europeans" which could
only have come from the Mediterranean area. All the underlying
assumptions are completely baseless as we will see:
Linguistic Evidence- Other Families-10
• 2. Semitic (contd.):
• Three: The word for "honey" (contd.):
• 1. The form of PIE beekeeping testified to by the IE words is
definitely not that of a "developed beekeeping economy ",
but primitive beekeeping of the first stage: While there is a
common PIE word for "honey", there is no common PIE word
for "bee", "bee-hive", "beeswax" or for any aspect of
"beekeeping/apiculture", all of which would have been
expected in a culture which practiced evolved domestic
apiculture, even if a borrowed one.
• This is also the case regarding the evidence from the Rigveda,
which is the oldest IE language record in existence: honey
(madhu-, sāragha-) is very important right from the Oldest
Books of the Rigveda. But the Rigveda has only a few
references to bees (called makṣ/makṣikā), and none
whatsoever to bee-hives, beeswax or anything which would
indicate the existence of any evolved forms of
beekeeping/apiculture.
Linguistic Evidence- Other Families-11
• 2. Semitic (contd.):
• Three: The word for "honey" (contd.):
• 2. There is absolutely no evidence that the honey central to
early PIE culture, or Vedic culture, was the honey from Apis
mellifera. After telling us all about the history of
Mediterranean beekeeping, Parpola discreetly tells us:
"Another species of cavity-nesting honey bee, Apis
cerana, is native to Asia east and south of Pakistan,
Afghanistan, China, Korea and Japan" (PARPOLA
2005:123). The largest honey bees in the world are the
species of Apis dorsata found in India and further east.
• 3. These eastern honey bees have been a source of honey
in India from ancient times, and honey gathering is an
ancient traditional occupation even in the remotest tribal
and hill areas in the interior of the country:
Linguistic Evidence- Other Families-12
• 2. Semitic (contd.):
• Three: The word for "honey" (contd.):
• Ancient Mesolithic rock paintings dated 8000-6000 BCE in
Bhimbetka and Pachmarhi in Madhya Pradesh depict honey
gathering of the primitive beekeeping type: "The collection of
honey is depicted in three paintings at Pachmarhi and one at
Bhimbetka. A painting in the Jambudwip shelter at Pachmarhi
shows a man driving out bees and a woman approaching the
beehive with a pot. Both are standing on ladders. In a second
Pachmarhi painting at Imlikhoh shelter a woman is driving away
the bees. In a third painting at Sonbhadra shelter two men
climbing a scaffold are surrounded by bees. The painting at
Bhimbetka shows a man touching a beehive with a round-ended
stick. The man holds a basket on his back and appears to be
suspended by a rope. There are three men below him, including
one standing on the shoulders of another man" (MATHPAL
1985:182). These rock-paintings represent the oldest depiction of
honey gathering in the whole of Asia.
Linguistic Evidence- Other Families-13
• 2. Semitic (contd.):
• Four: The word for the number "seven":
• Here we have an example of classic special pleading. A seeming
resemblance between "Proto-Indo-European *septṁ 'seven'" and "Proto-
Semitic *sab'atum" is interpreted to mean that for some unknown reason,
PIE reached across the Caucasus mountains and borrowed (among a
handful of words) a word for one stray numeral ("seven") from Semitic!
• This is too pedestrian to be discussed, but the above "scholarly" pleading
should be compared and contrasted with the uncompromisingly firm way
in which all the entrenched scholars refuse to even consider the possibility
that there were contacts between PIE and Proto-Austronesian in spite of
the clear resemblance between the very first four numerals in both these
proto-languages.
• Note what an eminent and staunchly AIT supporting scholar had written:
"the Austric speech […] in its original form (as the ultimate source of
both the Austro-Asiatic and Austronesian branches) […] could very well
have been characterized within India" (CHATTERJI 1951/1996:150).
Linguistic Evidence- Other Families-14
• 3. Austronesian:
• Isidore Dyen, in a paper presented in 1966 and published in 1970,
makes out a case showing the similarities between many basic
words reconstructed in the proto-Indo-European and proto-
Austronesian languages, including such basic words as the first four
numerals, many of the personal pronouns, and the words for
"water" and "land". And Dyen points out that "the number of
comparisons could be increased at least slightly, perhaps even
substantially, without a severe loss of quality" (DYEN 1970:439).
• But Dyen is not, by any stretch of the imagination, an OIT writer,
and an Indian homeland theory does not even remotely strike him
even after he notes these similarities: "The hypothesis to be dealt
with is not favoured by considerations of the distribution of the
two families […] The probable homelands of the respective
families appear to be very distant; that of the Indo-European is
probably in Europe.[ …] The hypothesis suggested by linguistic
evidence is not thus facilitated by a single homeland hypothesis"
(DYEN 1970:431).
Linguistic Evidence- Other Families-15
• 3. Austronesian (contd.):
• Nevertheless, he does present what he correctly calls the
"linguistic evidence", and the only Homeland Theory it
supports is the Indian Homeland (OIT):
• a) The very first four numerals: Proto-Indo-European
(*sem, *dwōu/*dwai, *tri, *qwetwor) and Proto-
Austronesian (*esa, *dewha, *telu, *pati/*epati).
• Compare Tocharian sas/se 'one', Romanian patru 'four',
Welsh pedwar 'four' and Malay sa/satu 'one', epat 'four'.
[Malay dua 'two' and tiga 'three' require no comparison].
• b) Personal Pronouns: I, we, you, he/she/it, (demonstr.)
this/he: PIE *eĝh, *ṅsme, *yu, *eyo/*eya, *to/*eno. PA
*aku, Tagalog ka-mi, Tagalog ka-yo, PA *ia, *itu/inu.
• c) "Land" and "water": PIE *wer, *ters. PA *wair and
*darat (Sanskrit vāri and dharā).
Linguistic Evidence- Other Families-16
• 4. Uralic:
• "The earliest layer of Indo-Iranian borrowing consists of common Indo-
Iranian, Proto-Indo-Aryan and Proto-Iranian words relating to three
cultural spheres: economic production, social relations and religious
beliefs. Economic terms comprise words for domestic animals (sheep,
ram, Bactrian camel, stallion, colt, piglet, calf), pastoral processes and
products (udder, skin, wool, cloth, spinner), farming (grain, awn, beer,
sickle), tools (awl, whip, horn, hammer or mace), metal (ore) and,
probably, ladder (or bridge). A large group of loanwords reflects social
relations (man, sister, orphan, name) and includes such important Indo-
Iranian terms like dāsa 'non-Aryan, alien, slave' and asura 'god, master,
hero'. Finally a considerable number of the borrowed words reflect
religious beliefs and practices: heaven, below (the nether world),
god/happiness, vajra/'Indra's weapon', dead/mortal, kidney (organ of
the body used in the Aryan burial ceremony). There are also terms
related to ecstatic drinks used by Indo-Iranian priests as well as Finno-
Ugric shamans: honey, hemp and fly-agaric" (KUZMINA 2001:290-291).
Linguistic Evidence- Other Families-17
• 4. Uralic (contd.):
• The early and very close relations between Uralic (Finno-Ugric) and "Indo-
Iranian" are beyond dispute. But the funny part is when it is sought to be
interpreted as evidence that the "Indo-Iranians" were in contact with the
Finno-Ugric people in eastern Europe before "migrating" into their
historical habits to the south of Central Asia:
• 1. All these massive and basic borrowings are in only one direction: every
single one is from "Indo-Iranian" to Uralic. There is not a single accepted
example of a borrowing in the opposite direction.
• In every single historical case, one-way borrowing only takes place when a
group of people speaking Language A emigrate to and settle down in the
area of Language B. Both languages in area B borrow words from each
other, but the Language A spoken in its original area A does not borrow
words from Language B. Thus SEA languages have borrowed Sanskrit
words, but Sanskrit does not have SEA words, Indian languages have
borrowed Arabic-Persian words, but Arabic-Persian have not borrowed
Indian words.
Linguistic Evidence- Other Families-18
• 4. Uralic (contd.):
• 2. The direction of migration was obviously westwards from
South Asia through Central Asia into eastern Europe:
• a) "The name and cult of the Bactrian camel were borrowed
by the Finno-Ugric speakers from the Indo-Iranians in
ancient times (Kuzmina 1963)" (KUZMINA 2001:296).
• b) "Another problem is how to account for Indo-Iranian
isolates which have been borrowed into Uralic […which form
part of…] the new vocabulary, which most probably was
acquired by the Indo-Iranians in Central Asia" (LUBOTSKY
2001:309).
• So the early Finno-Ugric evidence only proves the migration
of a group of "Indo-Iranians" from India to eastern Europe,
with the migrants later merging into the local population.
Linguistic Evidence- "Substrates"-1
• A favorite argument of AIT proponents is the "substrate" argument:
that the Rigveda contains "substrate" words from non-IE languages
which occupied the Vedic areas before the "arrival" of the "Aryan
immigrants/invaders".
• Hence finding "non-Aryan" words in the Rigveda and other Vedic
texts has become the favorite cottage-to-heavy industry for many
scholars: some prominent examples of a scholar literally going
berserk in paroxysms of substrate-mania are the following
articles/papers by Michael Witzel entitled:
• 1. "Substrate Languages in Old Indo-Aryan (Ṛgvedic, Middle and
Late Vedic)".
• 2. "Aryan and non-Aryan Names in Vedic India. Data for the
linguistic situation, c.1900-500 B.C.".
• 3. "The Languages of Harappa".
• 4. "Early 'Aryans' and their neighbors outside and inside India".
• 5. "Early Sources for South Asian Substrate Languages".
Linguistic Evidence- "Substrates"-2
• In these papers, Witzel insists on the existence of a "Para-Munda"
language (apart from an unknown, unrecorded and unrelated
"Language X") in the Harappan areas right up to Afghanistan even
when he has to go against the conclusions of all the Munda experts
who insist that Munda (Austric) languages were always spoken only
in eastern and central India and never in northern and
northwestern India. And then he literally goes berserk sweeping
large chunks of Vedic vocabulary into the "Para-Munda" basket.
• [It may be noted in passing that Witzel also alleges the existence of
a "BMAC substrate" in both Vedic and Iranian which represents the
earliest borrowings in Central Asia. I have dealt with this ridiculous
BMAC list in my books and articles and shown that far from being
"pre-Rigvedic" almost all these alleged "BMAC" words are found
only in the New Rigveda or even only in post-Rigvedic texts!]
• I have dealt in detail with this "substrate"-mongering (starting with
the malicious misuse of the word "substrate" for "adstrate") in my
books and articles: TALAGERI 1993:196-215, TALAGERI 2000:293-
308. Here we will look at the disease from a different angle:
Linguistic Evidence- "Substrates"-3
• 1. The Mitanni data (which no-one dares to challenge) shows
that the beginnings of the New Rigveda (Books 5,1,8-10) go
back to at least 2500 BCE and the Old Rigveda goes back
much further. Even in that period (beyond 3000 BCE), the Old
Rigveda has no memories of external lands or of having come
from outside, there are no "non-Aryan" enemies native to the
area, and the local animals and rivers have Indo-Aryan names.
[Witzel tries to show some of the river-names to be "non-
Aryan", but Blažek (in his paper "Hydronymia Ṛgvedica")
shows that out of 29 river-names, 22 have purely Indo-Aryan
names, and the rest have suggested Indo-Aryan as well as
suggested non-Indo-Aryan alternative etymologies].
• In effect, Witzel shows the Indo-Aryan presence in India even
in 3000 BCE to be so old that already the Rigveda has masses
of Munda words from far in the eastern interior of India.
Linguistic Evidence- "Substrates"-4
• 2. Witzel strives hard to establish, for example, that (among
various other things) all Vedic words beginning with ki-, ku-,
etc. are of "Para-Munda" origin.
• If this is so, then Kikkuli, the Mitanni writer of the treatise on
horse-racing in West Asia, also has a name with "Para-
Munda" elements in it. This again confirms that the Mitanni
departed (well before at least 2000 BCE) from a part of India
which was already, long before their departure, inundated
with "Para-Munda" elements (from eastern India) which were
already an integral part of Vedic culture.
• All this only confirms that the Original Homeland, where the
12 branches of IE shared a contiguous space around 3000 BCE
or so, was located in India.
• Nevertheless two main arguments are made to try to show
that "substrate" words prove the AIT or disprove the OIT:
Linguistic Evidence- "Substrates"-5
• 1. The first argument is that if PIE were in India, the
migrating IE branches would also have had Indian features
like cerebral sounds and Dravidian/Munda words.
• But, as already pointed out, the Romany (gypsy) language,
an Indo-Aryan language migrating from the interior of
North India just 1000 years ago does not have cerebral
sounds and Dravidian/Munda words. So obviously, if the 11
non-Indo-Aryan branches migrating from northwestern
India, to the west of the Vedic area, 5000-4000 years ago,
also do not have cerebral sounds and Dravidian/Munda
words, it proves nothing.
• 2. The second argument is that the Indo-Aryan languages
have borrowed non-Indo-Aryan names for Indian animals
and plants because they did not have Indo-Aryan names for
them since they themselves came from outside India and
were unacquainted with Indian flora and fauna.
Linguistic Evidence- "Substrates"-6
• As we saw, the Vedic rivers have purely Indo-Aryan names.
Here is a small list of the Indo-Aryan animal and plant
names in the Vedic Samhitas alone, demonstrating the
untenability of the argument:
• Rigveda: ibha-/vāraṇa/hastin (elephant), gaura (Indian
bison), mayūra (peacock ), mahiṣa/anūpa (buffalo), pṛṣatī
(chital), siṁha (lion), śiṁśumāra (Gangetic or river
dolphin), sālāvṛka (hyaena), kusumbhaka (scorpion),
cakravāka (brahminy duck), ulūka (owl), kapota (pigeon),
cāṣa (wagtail), śyena/suparṇa (eagle), gṛdhra (vulture),
śiṁśapa (shisham tree), kiṁṣuka/parṇa (flame-of-the
forest tree) khadira (heartwood tree), śalmalī/śimbala
(silk-cotton tree), vibhīdaka (belleric myrobalan or behra),
araṭva (arjuna tree), aśvattha/pippala (the sacred fig tree),
urvāruka (cucumber), vetasa (rattan/cane), darbha, muñja,
śarya, sairya, kuśara and vairiṇa (6 sacred Indian grasses).
Linguistic Evidence- "Substrates"-7
• Yajurveda and Atharvaveda: kaśyapa/ kūrma (tortoise),
kapi (monkey), vyāghra (tiger), pṛdāku (leopard), śārdūla
(tiger), khaḍga (rhinoceros), ajagara (python), nākra
(crocodile), kṛkalāsa (chameleon), nakula (mongoose),
jahakā (hedgehog), śalyaka (porcupine), jatū (bat),
anyavāpa (cuckoo), kṛkavāku (cock), kapiñjala/tittiri
(partridge); kalaviṅka (sparrow), kaṅka/krauñca (crane),
śuka (parrot), ikṣu (sugarcane), bilva (bael plant),
nyagrodha (banyan tree), śamī (shami tree), plakṣa (white
fig tree), and pippalī (long pepper), and in the Atharvaveda,
countless other Indian medicinal plants.
• At the same time, it may be noted that the Dravidian
languages have borrowed Indo-Aryan words for
northwestern animals (siṁha lion, uṣṭra camel, khaḍga
rhinoceros) and not vice versa. This would not have been
the case if Indo-Aryans had intruded into a Dravidian NW.
Linguistic Evidence- "Substrates"-8
• In general, it is not at all unusual or unnatural for languages
to borrow words from other unrelated languages even
when they have their own words for the same thing. Thus
Sanskrit neer (water) and meen (fish) are borrowed from
Dravidian not because Sanskrit did not have words for
them or Sanskrit speakers were unacquainted with water
and fishes.
• In most cases, the particular animal/plant or particular use
of the animal/plant may come from a particular area along
with the name from the local language: thus the Sanskrit
words elā (cardamom) and marica (pepper) are definitely
derived, like the plants themselves, from Dravidian.
• In short, there is nothing in the study of real or alleged
non-Indo-Aryan words in Vedic or Sanskrit or modern
Indo-Aryan which should suggest the AIT or rule out the
OIT.
The "PIE" arguments-1
• One very early argument used to try and fix the geographical
location of the Original Homeland was by seeing which language
seemed most archaic in form and vocabulary. So long as it was
believed that Vedic/Sanskrit was the most archaic IE language,
India was believed by the western scholars to be the Homeland.
When deeper linguistic studies demonstrated that both archaisms
and innovations are found in different respects and degrees in all
the different branches, this belief was not only abandoned but a
reaction set in which automatically rejected an Indian Homeland,
and many of the extremely weak and flawed arguments we have
already examined in this presentation were concocted and
emphasized in order to bolster this rejection.
• Basically it is not necessary that the most archaic language should
be found in the Original area, any more than it is necessary that the
descendant most closely resembling a very early ancestor should be
found living in the early ancestral village and home.
• Nevertheless the following points show that Vedic/Sanskrit
definitely presents the earliest picture of the PIE ethos:
The "PIE" arguments-2
• Griffith puts it in a nutshell as follows in the preface to the
first edition of his translation of the Rigveda: "The great
interest of the Ṛgveda is, in fact, historical rather than
poetical. As in its original language we see the roots and
shoots of the languages of Greek and Latin, of Kelt, Teuton
and Slavonian, so the deities, the myths, and the religious
beliefs and practices of the Veda throw a flood of light
upon the religions of all European countries before the
introduction of Christianity."
• Therefore the Vedic language and mythology both reflect a
situation closest, among all the branches, to the "roots and
shoots" of any reconstructed or reconstructable PIE
language and mythology.
• A look at a few fundamental aspects of language and
mythology will make this very clear:
• [All the scholars quoted are pro-AIT and totally non-OIT]
The "PIE" arguments-3
• Language:
• 1. Consonants: According to Lockwood, PIE had 4 series of occlusive
consonants: unvoiced unaspirated (p,t,k), voiced unaspirated
(b,d,g), unvoiced aspirated (ph,th,kh) and voiced aspirated
(bh,dh,gh). Vedic/Sanskrit is the only language which preserves all
four original series (LOCKWOOD 1969:86-87). The Greek branch, for
example, preserves only two, and Germanic none.
• 2. Tones: PIE had 3 free pitch accents: acute, grave and circumflex.
Only three branches preserved these: Vedic, ancient Greek and
Lithuanian. Vedic is the only language to preserve all three as free
pitch accents.,
• 3. Grammar: Vedic (and Avestan) had "three genders, three
numbers and eight cases, the fullest representation of the Indo-
European system" (LOCKWOOD 1972:215). PIE: 3-3-8; Vedic: 3-3-8;
Avestan: 3-3-8; Hittite: 2-2-8; Greek: 3-3-5; Italic Latin: 3-2-6;
Celtic: 3-3-5; Germanic Gothic: 3-2-4; Old Church Slavic: 3-3-7; Old
Armenian: 0-2-7; Albanian Illyrian: 3-2-6; Tocharian: 3-3-4.
The "PIE" arguments-4
• Language (contd.):
• 4. Inflection: "The morphology of Vedic […] retains
most faithfully the inflections of primitive Indo-
European" (CHATTERJI 1926/1970:38).
• "Greek and Sanskrit […] there are so few completely
regular verbs in these languages. It is the irregular
and defective verb which best reflects the prehistoric
background" (LOCKWOOD 1972:109).
• "Sanskrit, the faithful guardian of old Indo-European
forms, exhibits these remarkable [PIE inflection]
properties better than any other member of the
Aryan line of speech" (MONIER-WILLIAMS
1899:Intro.xiii, after discussing the kind of inflection in
the morphology of PIE).
The "PIE" arguments-5
• Language (contd.):
• 5. Vocabulary: Childe gives a list of 72 cognate PIE words as
follows: Sanskrit 70, Greek 48, Germanic 46, Italic 40,
Baltic 39, Celtic 25, Slavic 16, Armenian 15, Tocharian 8
(CHILDE 1926:91-93).
• In 1993, I already pointed out that "A study of the Sanskrit
lexicon shows that it contains the largest number of
proto-Indo-European roots and words, in their primary
sense as well as in the form of secondary derivatives. And
an overwhelmingly greater number of words, in various
Indo-European languages belonging to different branches,
have cognates in Sanskrit roots and words than in the
roots and words of any other branch—often the
etymology of words in different languages can be derived
only from a consideration of Sanskrit roots and words."
(TALAGERI 1993:114).
The "PIE" arguments-6
• Language (contd.):
• Now Nicholas Kazanas and Koenraad Elst have shown in detail that
Vedic/Sanskrit is the only language, among all the IE branch
languages, which has organic coherence in the formation of words,
in the form of an enormous number of basic and productive verbal
roots or dhātus (about 700 dhātus, of which more than 200 are
very productive roots) each producing a rich family of lexemes (i.e.
distinct verbs, nouns, adjectives, all derived from the same root)
while other languages only have isolated words without discernible
roots (except through Sanskrit dhātus) or lexemes.
• We already saw Mallory pointing out that the common PIE word for
the bear comes from a PIE root *h 2 ṛetk- which is not found in any
other IE language (in all of which the word for the bear is an
isolated word with no discernible root or lexemes) while the
Sanskrit root ṛkṣ- produces many nouns, verbs, adjectives, etc.
Kazanas shows that Sanskrit alone has the roots and lexemes for
many very common PIE words such as foot, name, father, son,
daughter, etc., etc. (including the name Sarasvati from √sṛ).
The "PIE" arguments-7
• Mythology and Religion:
• I have dealt with this in detail in my earlier books
(TALAGERI 1993:377-399; TALAGERI 2000:477-495) and in
my blogs. Later Kazanas has also taken up the issue and
gone into more details.
• 1. The mythology of the Rigveda represents the most
primitive and primeval form of Indo-European mythology:
as Macdonell puts it, for example, the Vedic gods "are
nearer to the physical phenomena which they represent,
than the gods of any other Indo-European mythology"
(MACDONELL 1963:15). In fact, in the majority of cases, the
original nature myths, in which the mythological entities
and the mythological events are rooted, can be identified
or traced only through the form in which the myths are
represented in the Rigveda.
The "PIE" arguments-8
• Mythology and Religion (contd.):
• 2. If we take a list of common deities found in more than
one IE mythologies, all the other Indo-European
mythologies, individually, have numerous mythological
elements in common with Vedic mythology, but very few
with each other; and even these few (except those
borrowed from each other by neighboring languages in
ancient but historical times, such as the Greek god Apollo,
borrowed by the Romans) are usually ones which are also
found in Vedic mythology.
• In a list of 19 common deities in my article "The Full Out-of-
India Case in Short": Vedic (19), Greek (9), Avestan (7),
Germanic (7), Roman (4), Baltic (4) Slavic (3), Celtic (2),
Hittite (1), Albanian (1). Any other representative list (see
also Kazanas) will show a very similar picture.
The "PIE" arguments-9
• Mythology and Religion (contd.):
• 3. Not only are Vedic deities the only ones to have clear
cognates in all the other branches, but in many cases, it is
almost impossible to recognize the connections between
related mythological entities and events in two separate Indo-
European mythologies without a comparison of the two with
the related Vedic versions.
• For example, the Teutonic (Germanic) Vanir are connected
with the Greek Hermes and Pan, but it is impossible to
connect the two except through the Vedic Saramā and Paṇi
(see TALAGERI 2000:477-495 for details). The Teutonic and
Greek versions bear absolutely no similarities with each
other, but are both, individually, clearly recognizable as
developments of the original Vedic Saramā-Paṇi myth.
The "PIE" arguments-10
• Mythology and Religion (contd.):
• 4. Iranian mythology, which should share to some
extent at least the same character as Vedic mythology
(since it is held that it was the undivided Indo-Iranians,
and not the Indo-Aryans alone, who separated from
the other Indo-European groups in South Russia and
migrated to Central Asia where they shared a common
culture and religion), on the contrary, has no elements
in common with other Indo-European mythologies
(other than with Vedic mythology itself). The Avestan
mythology stands aloof from all other Indo-European
mythologies and is connected only to Vedic mythology.
• All these factors show that the IE "roots and shoots"
are present only in Indo-Aryan, which is clearly the
only branch rooted in the Original (Indian) Homeland.
Pre-"Indo-Iranian" Linguistics-1
• The AIT paradigm is fundamentally based on the belief that pre-
Rigvedic Indo-Aryan history lies to the west of the Rigvedic area
(i.e. of Haryana to Afghanistan):
• a) That the earlier "Indo-Iranian" phase is to the northwest, in
Central Asia.
• b) That the even earlier pre-"Indo-Iranian" stage is further west, in
the Steppes.
• But do the linguistic facts and data indicate or support this
scenario? On the contrary:
• a) The Indo-Iranian stage (during which the Avestan Iranians and
the Mitanni Indo-Aryans migrated westwards) was not in Central
Asia but in the New Rigvedic area (Haryana to Afghanistan). And in
the older period of the Old Rigveda, all the Iranian and other Last
Branch speakers were in the Punjab.
• b) And as we will see, linguistic evidence shows the pre-"Indo-
Iranian" stage lies further east: not just in the Haryana-to-
Afghanistan area but eastwards over most of North India.
Pre-"Indo-Iranian" Linguistics-2
• When scholars try to show linguistic evidence that "Indo-Iranian"
history lay to the west of the Rigvedic area, they always fail badly:
Witzel claims that the Iranian and Indo-Aryan branches, before
they entered their earliest known historical territories, borrowed
certain words from the BMAC language in Central Asia (pre-
Rigveda), and brought them into Afghanistan-Iran and India
respectively: he lists 18 such "BMAC" words (WITZEL 1999:54-55).
• However, while all these are very common words in later texts,
seven (iṣṭi, godhūma, ṣaṇa, sasarpa, khaḍga, vīṇā and khara) of
these eighteen words are post-Rigvedic words, not found in the
Rigveda at all (and the same is the case with another word, liṅga,
named by him in another article). Another ten (uṣṭra, kadrū,
kapota, kaśyapa, parṣa, prdāku, bīja, bhaṅga, yavya and sthūṇā)
are found only in the New Rigveda.
• The only word in his list, which does occasionally occur in the earlier
Books, is the word bhiṣaj, found 40 times in the New Rigveda, and 4
times in the Old Rigveda, in hymns which could well be classified as
late or late redacted hymns within those Books.
Pre-"Indo-Iranian" Linguistics-3
• The r and l divide:
• In the case of pre-"Indo-Iranian" history, there is a very
solid piece of linguistic evidence showing that history to be
in the east of the "Indo-Iranian" area rather than in the
west: the r and l divide.
• According to linguistic analysis, two different sounds in PIE,
r and l, merged into a single sound r in "Indo-Iranian".
• MM Deshpande (a co-editor of Witzel's journal EJVS) notes
that "all three groups ― the Proto-Iranians, the Western
branch of the Proto-Indo-Aryans and the Eastern branch
of the Proto-Indo-Aryans ― represent the r-only dialects
of common Indo-Iranian heritage" (DESHPANDE 1995:71):
i.e. the Proto-Iranians, the Mitanni (the Western branch of
the Proto-Indo-Aryans) and the Vedic Aryans (the Eastern
branch of the Proto-Indo-Aryans), all three of them, were
"r-only dialects".
Pre-"Indo-Iranian" Linguistics-4
• The r and l divide (contd.):
• But the Rigvedic language has both r as well as a (highly
reduced) l. Why is this so?
• This is because "the dialect of the redactors of the Vedas
was an r-and-l dialect, where the original Indo-European
*r and *l were retained; the redactors of the Vedic texts
have put this l back into some of the Vedic words, where
the original Vedic dialect had an r". But the northwestern
dialects were "almost devoid of l". Deshpande, therefore,
sees the need to "explore the difference between the r-
only dialect and the r-and-l dialect (and possibly an l-only
dialect)" (DESHPANDE 1995:70-71).
• Then who were the speakers of these l-and-r and l-only
dialects in the east within India who very clearly fall
outside the common Indo-Iranian heritage, where r and l,
merged into a single sound r in or west of Central Asia?
Pre-"Indo-Iranian" Linguistics-5
• The r and l divide (contd.):
• Deshpande also asks this question: "Where did they come
from? […] Were the speakers of the r-and-l dialect of pre-
Vedic Indo-Aryan a totally different branch from the Indo-
Iranian? These are difficult questions. […] Anyway, one
would still have to assume the entry of r-and-l dialects of
Indo-Aryan into India before the arrival of the Ṛgvedic
Aryans to account for the fact that r-and-l dialects in India
were more easterly in relation to the Ṛgvedic dialect"
(DESHPANDE 1995:71-72).
• When the entire weight of the AIT linguistic arguments is
geared to try and prove (a total failure, as we have been
seeing) the entry into India in 1500 BCE of a section (the
Vedic Indo-Aryans) of the "Indo-Iranian branch" from the
Steppes to Central Asia and then southwards, who can
explain these earlier eastern pre-Indo-Iranian "Aryans"?
Pre-"Indo-Iranian" Linguistics-6
• The Eastern "Aryans":
• It is not only Deshpande and the r and l divide.
• From day one of Indological linguistic studies, linguists have
been finding evidence of totally different IE speaking
dialects, different from the "Indo-Iranian" (Vedic-Avestan)
grouping, to the east of the Vedic territory deeper within
India.
• Although these inconvenient easterners are generally swept
under the carpet in standard AIT/AMT expositions and
discussions, many linguistic studies have uncovered clues to
the existence of these ancient eastern "other Aryans", and
in fact a theory of "two waves of Aryan immigrants" is a
regular discreet corollary to the standard AIT/AMT, in
which the Vedic Aryans (along with their Iranian brethren
to the west) are very clearly designated and classified as
immigrants of the "second wave"(TALAGERI 1993:231-235).
Pre-"Indo-Iranian" Linguistics-7
• The Eastern "Aryans" (contd.):
• Thus, K.R. Norman, in his study of the variations between the OIA
(Old Indo-Aryan: Vedic and Classical Sanskrit) and MIA (Middle
Indo-Aryan: Prakrits), finds MIA dialects contain many forms "which
are clearly of IA, or even IE, origin, but have no attested Skt
equivalent, e.g. suffixes not, or only rarely, found in Skt, or those
words which show a different grade of root from that found in Skt,
but can be shown not to be MIA innovations, because the
formation could only have evolved in a pre-MIA phonetic form, or
because a direct equivalent is found in an IE language other than
Skt", and he notes that "the forms in that category go back to 'lost'
OIA dialects" (NORMAN 1995:282).
• He adds: "I know of no attempt to make a complete and
comprehensive collection of the evidence for this interesting
category of forms in MIA, and it remains scattered through the
pages of Indological writings. I believe that, until such a collection
is made, the amount of material available will be
underestimated." (NORMAN 1995:283).
Pre-"Indo-Iranian" Linguistics-8
• The Eastern "Aryans" (contd.):
• The AIT/AMT has absolutely no explanation for these older
and eastern "lost" Indo-European ("Indo-Aryan") dialects
within India. But the OIT does:
• The PIE language is reconstructed not from all the original
dialects in the Original Homeland but only from the records of
the 12 surviving branches of IE languages, descended from
the emigrant Anu and Druhyu dialects and from the Pūru
dialects (as represented in the Rigveda and other Vedic texts).
• There were other eastern IE dialects in India to the east and
south of the Pūru dialects: the dialects of the Yadus, Turvasus
and Ikṣvākus (including the ancestral forms of Sinhalese,
Bangani, etc.) that remained unrecorded, but left clues in
Sanskrit, and in the Prakrits and modern Indo-Aryan
languages.
Pre-"Indo-Iranian" Linguistics-9
• The Eastern "Aryans" (contd.):
• I had described this in my very first book (TALAGERI
1993:229-231) where I pointed out that "The
confusion arises because people insist on presuming
that the Vedic language was the earliest form of Indo-
Aryan, that Classical Sanskrit developed from Vedic,
that the Prakrits (Middle Indo-Aryan) developed from
Sanskrit and that the modern Indo-Aryan languages
(New Indo-Aryan) developed from these Prakrits".
• I postulated instead that "The earliest form of Indo-
European speech (proto-proto-Indo-European) was
spoken in the interior of india, and in late prehistoric
times it spread out as far north and west as Kashmir
and Afghanistan" (TALAGERI 1993:229).
Pre-"Indo-Iranian" Linguistics-10
• The Eastern "Aryans" (contd.):
• The original language developed into various proto-
languages. I put it as follows: "The modern Indo-Aryan
languages, therefore, are not descendants of the Rigvedic
dialects, but of other dialects which were
contemporaneous with the Rigvedic dialects, but which
belonged to a different section of Indo-European speech
(the Inner-Indo-European section) […] Finally the Inner
dialects came into their own in the form of the 'New indo-
Aryan' languages, as heavily Sanskritized as the Dravidian
languages". All these "dialects and languages influenced
each other in innumerable ways, too complicated to be
analyzed here […] and today we find Inner Indo-European
languages, heavily Sanskritized, spoken all over North
India" (TALAGERI 1993:230-231).
• All this obviously requires deeper study.
Conclusion and Footnote
• Conclusion:
• The Indian Homeland and Out-of-India case explains all the
recorded data and linguistic facts and phenomena, while
the AIT/AMT completely falls apart on examination. It is
time for Indians at least to open their eyes and examine the
case without any bias.
• Footnote:
• Just for the record: "The Vedic dialects died away in the
course of time […] But long before they died away, the
Vedic dialects had set in motion a powerful wave of a cult
movement which covered the entire nation in its sweep.
This Vedic cult also finally gave way to the local pan-Indian
religions of the Inner-Indo-Europeans and Dravidian-
language speakers, but continued to remain in force as the
elite layer of this pan-Indian religion" (TALAGERI 1993:230).
Third part of the video was as amazing as the first two, if not more. Thank you!
ReplyDeleteSir, the third part of the video is very nice. Though I broadly agree with you, I found a few instances I could not reconcile with my beliefs so far. One of the disagreements I have is that Vedic is a different _langauge_ from Classical Sanskrit. As I understand, there could be a few words/pratyays that are only in Vedic. However that doesnt make a case for Vedic being a totally a different language.
ReplyDeleteMany, if not most words, are common even to "Classical" Sanskrit. The Vibhakti formations are similar for most words. This view has been echoed even by the leading Grammarian of our times, Dr. Pushpa Dixit.
In the link below from 3:40, the Mahāmahopādhyāya says, that लौकिक भाषा (found in Ramayan etc) is no different from वैदिक भाषा , though there are a few words, and additional grammatical sutra (as per Panini) which are need to explain exceptional words (noun, verbs etc) वैदिक framework. In about 4000 sutras in Ashtadhyayi, there are hardly 263 cases for which special exceptions in वैदिक usage had to be mentioned, and most of them has restrictive applications in word formations, thus maintaining the broad consistency between Vedic and Classic Sankrit. Thus, I doubt if Vedic can be considered an ancient different language, but it is the same language with just some more ancient usage of words.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLZxkYtIpnk
Further regarding the 3 intonations of उदात्त अनुदात्त स्वरित ; I must say they are found in "Classical" Sanskrit of Panini too. There are sutras dealing with the intonations of Svaras discussed in Ashtadhyayi. The first introduction of the 3 intonations are in 1.2.40
https://ashtadhyayi.com/sutraani/1/2/40
I agree that intonations may not be taught at the initial stages to a student, and many works may be written without intonations. However, I do believe the IA-language(s) and even Classical Sanskrit do have intonations, though not available in the written script.
One more point of disagreement I have is when examining the gulf of words in Old RigVeda and words that have come up later. Many times it is said that if the first mention of a Sanskrit word is not found in Old Rig Veda, it is a new word added. While that could indeed be the true for many cases, it need not be for _all_ the cases. For eg, while examining that Sanskrit is close to the IE languages and when cognates were found by western scholars, I am doubtful if only the RigVedic vocabulary was used.
Furthermore, I am curious if a project has ever been performed to investigate if the all cognate words with European languages have all been found in Old Rig Veda. I am doubtful if we would get a 100% success hit (I would be curious what would be estimate in your opinion), though I agree the names of individuals can be used as a marker for the time of the composition of the verse.
This also involves speculating the origins of various words. For eg, it is proposed that Neer is a Dravidian word that was added to IA languages like Sanskrit. Though this could be true, it could be false too. For eg Neer could be spoken in Non-Vedic Prakrit dialects which was then transferred to Dravidian languages, like many other Sanskrit words.
The question is not just of the difference between the VEdic and Classical Sanskrit languages, but even of the differences within the languages of the Old Rigveda and the New Rigveda. If (as I can see you have not) you had read my article on the difference between the two, you would not have written all this. As I have shown from the list of new vocabulary in the New Rigveda, these new words are found in hymns as follows:
Delete1. Old Rigveda Books 2,3,4,6,7: 0 Hymns out of 280 = 0%.
2. Redacted Hymns in Old Books 2,3,4,6,7: 51 Hymns out of 62 = 82.26%.
3. New Rigveda Books 1,5,8,9,10: 660 Hymns out of 686 = 96.21%.
If this evidence is not conclusive, and we are expected to rely only on the prophetic utterances of motivated scholars against this evidence, there is nothing I can say that could overturn such fundamentalist FAITH.
Vedic is different from Classical Sanskrit not only in vocabulary but also in phonetics and grammar. This is an established fact, and an internet debate based on Faith vs. Facts on this point would be senseless.
Many thanks for the reply. I agree that Vocabulary gulf is possible between various Mandalas of the Rig Veda.
DeleteMy overall point was that, Vocabulary difference does not imply language difference, imo. For eg, a bunch of internet jargon based vocabulary (like meme, hashtag etc) may have been added in the last few decades, but that in my opinion does not imply that language of English in 1900s or late 19th century is different from the language spoken today. A lay English reader of current times can understand majority of works of authors in English over a century ago, because the grammar is the same in essence.
One of the the best models of linguistics/grammar is done by Panini himself. From his own work only a handful of sutras are needed to fit the grammar of a majority of the Vedic data. So I doubt that Vedic language, though pre-Paninian, can be called a different grammar.
All possible 18 types of swaras (for अ इ उ ऋ), उदात्त/अनुदात्त/स्वरित , अनुनसिक/अननुनासिक , ह्रस्व/दीर्घ/प्लुत are found in Panini grammar. I guess this not not a faith on certain scholars as pointed out, but can be observed from his sutras - which I believe is actually in the Fact realm.
* A minor correction to previous message. The discussion on intonation begins with 1/2/29 itself with the sutra उच्चैरुदात्तः . It is the discussion in this section of Ashtadhyayi ends in 1/2/40.
Namaste Srikant ji!
ReplyDeleteThoroughly enjoyed the podcast. Yours is among the most complete linguistic analyses of the IE debate.
I would love to have your opinion on this article https://www.brownpundits.com/2021/09/08/agriculture-and-the-indo-europeans-steppe-and-south-asia/
The author herein, Jaydeep Rathore, argues that agricultural evidences –linguistic as well as archaeological – render a steppe homeland impossible and plead strongly in favour of a homeland near India. His case seems rather compelling, and could be a great addition to your Out of India theory. Please let me know what you make of it.
Yes, the evidence he has gathered is very impressive. I was not aware of these related words for wheat etc.
DeleteYou arguments against genetics is very convincing.
ReplyDeleteNote that the frequency percentage of r1a1 shows out of a population, how many males have a y chromosome with r1a1. A better way to deal with the contradiction between linguistics and textual evidence versus genetics is by examining the amount of steppe dna (found in the autosomal chromosomes) a person has as a whole. For example, A person may have 3o percent of his dna being steppe, but 70% of his community members have the r1a1 gene on the chromosome regardless of the stepe dna amount he has.
ReplyDeleteShrikant Sir, just wanted to know if it is important to stress out 4.2 kilo-year climatic event for triggering the large scale migrations, which is associated with:
ReplyDelete1. Beginning of drought period and slowly drying Saraswati river.
2. Severe winters associated with draught (it didn't actually became hotter btw, rather opposite). I think this has been also has been recorded in Avesta, from one of your articles.
3. Evidence for large-scale and rapid ingression of Zebu cattle, which was only found in Indian sub-continent, proven with genetic analysis of ancient DNA. DNA analysis in this case highly unlikely to be less fake because Taurus and Indicus are different sub-species - so various factors like more precision in regression models help.
4. Animals by themselves never migrate so quickly from natural habital, especially domesticated ones.So definite proof of human migrations.
5. There's actually concrete reason for language spread and migrations, unlike in AIT, where Steppe Aryans want to Aryanize everyone, in all directions, for no apparent reason 😂
https://publons.com/publon/15733604/
DeleteA Eureka idea: If we find the zebu admixture dates with taurine for each Indo-European region, and that matches with arrival of that language there - it adds a lot of weight to OIT.
DeleteFor regions of category B (isoglosses), obviously the admixture date can be earlier, as sort of these arrived in a second wave, with category A languages arriving first.
This is already done, I think. Zebu admixture appears in Taurine by late 3rd millenium-early 2nd millenium BC. Lines up with timeline for last waves of IE dispersals out of India.
DeleteRegarding DNA papers that were published, one pattern I observed which seemed erroneous to me. In an Excel sheet containing admixture levels and admixture dates - why is that throughout India admixture date is always hovering around 800+-200 bce, irrespective of location?
ReplyDeleteWe know for a fact that caste system arrived much later in Southern regions of India, compared to North (e.g. Cynthia Talibot's study on 12th century inscriptions).
Isn't the admixture dates supposed to monotonically increase as go to South Indian castes?
Also why is that castes are always chosen from different locations to do this study rather than one location, especially villages rather than cities.
Talageri, what is the name of the book that you use to find the where a certain word appears in the Rig Veda.
ReplyDeleteIt is the Grammatical Word Index to the Four Vedas of Vishva Bandhu published by the Vishveshvarand Vedic Research Institute, Hoshiarpur. But you have to do continuous cross-reference with the prefixes given in the Uttarapadanukramasuchi given in the last volume.
DeleteThe Germanic ancestors moved out out of India before Rig Veda was composed. Yama is a late Vedic Diety appearing only in Book 10. How do the Germanic people have a giant named Ymir then. Also the myth of Ymir or any other Indo European man being killed and having his parts turned into pieces of the earth is a late myth. It is found in Rug Veda Purusha suits which scholars say is interpolated.
ReplyDeleteJust because it appears in maṇḍala 10, does not mean that's the earliest the notion existed. You're going by absence of evidence, and taking that as evidence of absence.
DeleteYes, Yama appears only in the New Rigveda. But that does not mean he did not exist before: he existed among the Anus (Iranians) and Druhyus (Germanic) and 9is in fact the Iranian equivalent (Yima Vivanghvata) of the Vedic Manu Vaivasvata who is not actually found in Iranian (as I have pointed out several times, this is proof that Manuschithra was originally a Puru who fought on the Anu side).
DeleteThe Purusha Sukta is in the tenth Mandala, but it is not the myth of a primordial being which is late or new, it is the specific names of the four castes with which the four parts of the Purusha are identified that are late or new. A primordial myth is now associated with the four divisions of (any) society but with names which developed in the New Rigveda.
There was a passage in the rig veda Beda where this primordial man's body became stuff in nature. Like the eyes becoming sun or moon.
DeletePeace, respected Shrikant ji:
ReplyDeleteI must first thank you for sincerely completing and sharing your unparalleled work.
The full effect of its repercussions to all of world history has only just begun to be considered and written. All of world history will be revised based on the broad-ranging implications of your work.
As a Nichiren Buddhist living in North America, I am deeply curious about how your discoveries will impact African world history. I believe the African and Indian histories can, with your insights into Indo-Aryan linguistics history, resonate in a way that can reform education with a renewed humanism and fairness. I'm personally interested in the role of Central Asia in the exchange that happened with the "silk road". However, before a revision of world history can really take root and bear fruit, African history (based on the works of Cheikh Anta Diop, John G Jackson, Chancellor Williams, Ivan Van Sertima, Charles S Finch III) must be reviewed while upholding a clear understanding of your work. I've learned a lot about the nomadic Indo-Europeans that are associated with the "invading Aryans tribes" from our esteemed pioneering African scholars.
As a young undocumented student, and as a Buddhist, I appreciate the liberating resistance to oppression that African humanists uphold against the invading "Indo-European", for I honor the cause against the corruption of the caste system, which Diop declares that the Indus peoples inherited from Nile Valley totemism.
And yet, none of the honored Africanists had access to your research when they wrote their monumental works, so one must be disciplined and alert to be able to discern just what culture is being referred to when the "Indo-European / Aryan" is brought up.
I've been weaving together many of these sources and have come upon this roadblock to my research. If there is any way I can support in the endeavor to help clarify this, or if you have any thoughts or comments about my concern, I would sincerely appreciate it and would incur a profound debt of gratitude.
I hope this message finds you well, and thanks for taking the moment to read through my message.
Peace,
Pedro Barilari
Sir, your comment on his opinions? https://divingintothevedas.quora.com/Revisiting-the-Dates-and-Arranging-Rigveda-Talageri-s-update?ch=3&oid=8568882&share=cf18927f&srid=uKE2d&target_type=post
ReplyDeleteSir, your response will be duly appreciated.
DeleteI know you have given a detailed case for westward movement of Vedic purus, but it's just that the above mentioned person is a Vedic scholar who has been doing his own research in IE history, he says that the younger Rigveda "might" consist of steppe people returning to India and the theme of Veda and avesta do not match with urban cities AT ALL so the Harappan cities weren't vedic and the language might be some extinct local languages, is there any feasibility for that theory at all? You can go through some of the answers mentioned in the comment section too
DeleteAlso thank you for all the wonderful work you've been doing, I know you get tired of repeating the same answers again and again but his post about your blog certainly confused the hell out of me.
I went through the above article, and it is totally flawed. Having perhaps earlier claimed (like other half-baked scholars like Bhagwan Gidwani who wrote the silly book "Return of the Aryans") that Aryans "returned" to India (???!!!), they stick to the idea through thick and thin, and require no proof other than their own assertions.
DeleteHe writes: "several IE words which are not simply present in Old Rigveda, along with several words peculiar to Indo Iranian and which continue to grow in later Sanskrit, possibly due to interaction between cultures of the region. This can be explained by my proposition that the new strata was composed after a later migration of groups of the Aryan tribes from North West into subcontinent. (Read, with “a Steppe ancestry”)[...] till compilation, the mantras could have been linguistically enhanced for intelligibility, as is done for their quotes in other saṃhitās."
Does any of this make sense? Why is it they (the final editors?) only "linguistically enhanced" the New Book hymns and the Redacted Hymns but not the Old Hymns in the 5 Old Books? And what proof does this man have for any kind of selective "linguistic enhancement"? And why should this show a "return" of Aryans from outside? As I have pointed out, the Vedic Aryans expanded into the northwest and central Asia in new Rigvedic and Atharvavedic times, and borrowed PIE words from the remnants of the Anu and Druhyu dialects then present there.
He also writes: "The personal names in Mitanni being present in Newer Rigveda (Tveṣaratha, Priyamedha, Subandhu) in a more pronounced way also tempts one towards this conclusion." Did the Mitanni then migrate in post-Rigvedic and Atharvavedic times: if so, then it takes the age of the Old Rigveda back by a few 100 years more and strengthens my OIT case.
And where does the "Steppe" element enter into all this? The ignoramus seems unaware that even Reich claims that the earliest discovered Steppe elements come only after 1100 BCE and only in the northernmost Swat area. Everyone ignores this fundamental part of Reich's data and only quotes his unsupported claims of a 2000 BCE intrusion which resulted in the Rigveda.
That's what I thought too, but he is not ignoramus, I've seen him making compelling arguments against AIT/AMT in the past against its strongest proponent (Ambika Vijay), which is why I was surprised to see that post
DeleteAnyway, AIT vs OIT war has been reignited in Quora, there is a woman named ambika vijay who is anti-theist in general but anti-hindu in particular who has been spewing venom against Hinduism for a while now, the claims include misogyny, patriarchy, casteism right from the beginning, persecution of Jains & buddists etc (generally provides sources for her claims but in a biased way)
but Coming to the point - her main weapon is AMT, the reasons provided for AMT are
1. Genetics - Apart from the usual R1a claims she also states that the Indians (especially North Indians) have fairer complextion because of some particular European genes
2. Archeology - PGW as Vedic, according to her PGW culture differed from Harappan; They mainly pop up in post Harappan times but in contrast with IVC they didn't even have toilets
(Cites a report of somebody and "BB Lal-before he famously turned right wing")
3. Linguistics and comparative mythology - she doesn't have much knowledge
4. Dravidian connections to IVC - the usual points
The OIT camp has used your points occasionally, but she dismisses OIT as fringe theory,
Do check out her answers if you're interested as AMT camp is creating a narrative with treating her as some Demi God. Rebutting her arguments would break the "AMT aura" that is currently present in Quora
Lastly, sorry for being anonymous, I know I shouldn't have done it but I'm fighting nihilism right now so chose to remain unknown
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-significant-findings-in-the-Rakhigarhi-archaeological-investigation-which-can-change-our-perspective-of-the-Sindhu-Saraswati-Civilization/answer/Kiron-Krishnan-1?ch=10&oid=165950650&share=6ec98189&srid=uKE2d&target_type=answer
DeleteHe is a scholar in IE field but he has a somewhat condescending attitude towards you and I don't know why anyway in the above answer and its comments he said your arguments have been debunked genetically and linguistically, so I'm sharing this.
I wish you well for your upcoming article on the new words in the younger Rigveda