Goebbelsian Repetition of Witzel's Lies in "peer-reviewed" Indological Study Papers
Shrikant G Talageri
I have already uploaded my reply to Witzel's frankly fake "review" of my book "The Rigveda - A Historical Analysis" (2000) (it is also available on academia.edu as a downloadable file):
https://talageri.blogspot.com/2021/09/michael-witzel-examination-of-his.html
I have also written many times about the fraudulent nature of the "peer-reviewed" corpus of papers in the established western academic world, where blatant lies and falsehoods are repeated ad nauseam and copied from paper to paper with Goebbelsian intensity until they become established as the Truth (proving to the hilt the practical efficacy of what is often rightly or wrongly described as "Goebbels' maxim" — whether or not it was actually said by Goebbels himself or only effectively demonstrated by him — "repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth" or "if you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it").
Modern western academics runs on this maxim, and it has created a new religious mindset where western-approved "peer-reviewed" papers become equivalent to scriptures, and the academic writers of these papers some kind of academic prophets whose God-inspired judgments and pronouncements acquire an immutable scriptural authority. There is no shortage of followers of this new religion on the internet who dismiss my case purely on the ground that it has been stonewalled by this Goebbelsian academic caucus, and who express the dogma that a case not approved in "peer-reviewed" journals is automatically unworthy of acceptance or even consideration. This is exactly the mindset also of Islamic and Evangelist "scholars" and demagogues, like Zakir Naik who requires that something automatically stands proved or disproved depending on whether or not it is corroborated in the Quran. To such people, a "peer-reviewed" statement that 2+2=5 is automatically right and a non-"peer-reviewed" statement that 2+2=4 is extremely likely to be wrong if not automatically wrong. So I generally see no reason to even bother to comment on them.
However, a recent paper "Indus Epigraphic Perspectives Exploring Past Decipherment Attempts & Possible New Approaches" by Paul D. LeBlanc (Department of Classics and Religious Studies, Faculty of Arts, University of Ottawa) again brought to my notice the spiraling snowball effect of lies published in "peer-reviewed" papers, and their limitless lethal potential for the Scriptural Truth Effect on the unformed brains of educated illiterates. I have already demonstrated, in my articles on Witzel, Hock, Fournet and Stuhrmann, the spiraling snowball of incredibly blatant "peer-reviewed" academic lies and fraudulent falsehoods and their effect even on "scholarly writers" (let alone on pompous internet illiterates): note the scripturalization of countless verifiably false statements in Witzel's above referred "review" of my book. In this article, we will again see Witzel's lies being scripturalized by another "peer-reviewed" scholar: Paul D. LeBlanc.
While the whole paper is full of ignorant statements and half-truths, I will only deal with the brazen Goebbelsian nature of his remarks in respect of my work, since this shows how these fraudulent scholars have no qualms or compunctions in writing blatant lies and repeating them ad nauseam in paper after paper:
"Talageri argues that Vedic Sanskrit is mother-tongue to the Indo-Iranian sub-family (or branch) of the IE language family – and not the entire IE family. Talageri’s (2000) adaptation of the Out-of-India theory implies that the Indo-Iranian “mythical homeland” is to be situated in the [sic] Kashmir, while the PIE homeland (according to him) ultimately traces its origins in the region of Haryana, from where Rigvedic Āryans (speaking a related language that could possibly be a sister to the Indo-Aryan branch) would have then migrated to other areas before moving on westward into Iran and onwards to Europe (ibid. I.5 and II.7). Talageri claims that his views are based on “scriptural evidence in the Puranas (texts of the first millennium AD only) for his emigration” (Witzel 2006b: 223).
However, as Witzel (2006b) remarks, Talageri has misinterpreted the Puranic passages in question, therefore making his unfounded theoretical viewpoints “simply a product of revisionist fantasy” (ibid. 223). The fact that Talageri makes PIE and its “people” come from the Maharashtra area coincides with the fact that it is “Talageri’s own homeland” (ibid. 223). For this reason, Witzel describes Talageri’s ideas as “truly Indocentric, pseudo-Purānic fantasy”"
In this mass of lies, the most absolutely blatant and (if it were not so sick) laughable lie is the claim that I make "PIE and its “people” come from the Maharashtra area [….] “Talageri’s own homeland” (ibid. 223)". In exactly which book, paper or talk (even a private unrecorded talk or a private mail!) have I ever even hinted that Maharashtra — assuming it is my own particular "homeland" — could possibly be the ultimate homeland of "PIE and its “people”"? The only reference to Maharashtra in connection with the Rigveda and the Homeland, that I ever remember having made, is in my very first book in 1993 (in which book, as I have mentioned countless times, I was still giving some importance to general Puranic assertions though only as a secondary source, and even that attitude underwent a major change when I started out on my second book and made a more direct primary analysis of the sources) where I have pointed out that one of the persons to whom a reference is made in a Rigvedic hymn — Lopāmudrā — is said in the Puranas to be the daughter of the king of Vidarbha (in NW Maharashtra). But this (not repeated in any subsequent outline of my case), by no stretch of lying, can be construed to mean that I claimed that Maharashtra was the ultimate homeland of "PIE and its “people”"! And I have long since been asserting in my articles that the Agastya family of composers (in whose hymns these references to Lopāmudrā occur) are descendants of a Dravidian-language speaking ancestral sage Agastya from the South, who (the descendants, that is, but not the ancestor) migrated northwestwards during the period of composition of the New Rigveda and became a part of Rigvedic culture.
And yet, Witzel made this blatantly false statement in his "peer-reviewed" article, which is now being regularly cited in other "peer-reviewed" articles, in article after article! This falsehood-mongering is what "peer-review" is all about, and this is what the educated illiterates in the west as well as in India treat as "gospel" truth! If "peer-reviewed" academic writers see no need to check out even such a simple and easily verifiable statement, as they write "peer-reviewed" paper after "peer-reviewed" paper, and simply go on quoting each other ad nauseam without ever seeing the need to go to the primary sources — which means basically the textual, linguistic and archaeological data in the matter of any historical topic, or even the actual writings of non-"peer-reviewed" writers whom they see fit to criticize, dismiss and label on the basis of the earlier "peer-reviewed" papers they are quoting — then the "papers" written by these robotic copy-paste frauds are not fit even to be used as toilet papers!
I am willing to put at stake my entire reputation and the credibility of my entire OIT case on this one point: did I ever at any point of time claim that Maharashtra was the ultimate homeland of "PIE and its “people”"?
Is Witzel, or are any of the fools who blindly repeat all his lies and treat them as gospel truth, equally willing to stake entire "scholarly" reputations and the credibility of the entire AIT case on this one point?
But it is not just this one point. Take some others in the single two-paragraph quotation given above:
1. "Talageri argues that Vedic Sanskrit is mother-tongue to the Indo-Iranian sub-family (or branch) of the IE language family […] Talageri’s (2000) adaptation of the Out-of-India theory implies that the Indo-Iranian “mythical homeland” is to be situated in the [sic] Kashmir".
As I have everywhere, from my very first book, insisted that Indo-Aryan and Iranian are two separate branches, and that the Vedic Aryans were Pūrus (located in Haryana) while the proto-Iranians were Anus (originally located in Kashmir and areas to its west: the areas even today of the proto-Iranian Nuristani languages), the above makes no sense except to show that neither Witzel nor LeBlanc have even the faintest idea of what I have written.
2. "Rigvedic Āryans [….] would have then migrated to other areas before moving on westward into Iran and onwards to Europe (ibid. I.5 and II.7)".
This is even worse: nowhere in my writings have I claimed that the "Rigvedic Āryans" (i.e. Pūrus) migrated "westward into Iran and onwards to Europe": it was the Anus who migrated into Iran and then onwards into (southeastern) Europe, while the Druhyus, migrated by a separate route into Central Asia and then onwards into the major parts of Europe.
Again, it is not just this one paper. I request the reader, if he has the time and patience, to go with a magnifying glass through my reply to Witzel's review cited at the very beginning of this article, and see exactly the kind of trash that passes for "scholarship" in the world of "peer-reviewed" scholars, articles and journals: see the lies, utter inanities, sharp u-turns and sharp contradictions, petty personal abuse and label-sticking, and other hallmarks of western "peer-reviewed scholarship" contained in Witzel's writings (or for that matter, in the writings of Hock, Fournet or Stuhrmann, as detailed in my articles).
Honest academic debate, or any kind of honest debate or amicable discussion, is simply not possible in the face of any kind of virulent religious dogmatism: whether the virulent religious dogmatism of Islamicists and Evangelists, or of "Hindus" trying to ape their Abrahamic counterparts in religious dogmatism (people like Koenraad Elst and myself face their venomous ire on a very regular basis), or of slavering anti-Hindu Woke Leftists, or of "Modi-bhakts" (who will justify every anti-Hindu stab in the back of Hindus by those who come to power in the name of Hindu issues), or, of course, the subject of this article, of the blind followers of the "peer-review" cult. It is time this fact is registered very clearly in the minds of people who discuss issues honestly or want to see honest discussions taking place.
Another case of stonewalling ! Why they don't engage in a proper debate with you ?
ReplyDeleteI asked Talageri once if he considered a live debate with Witzel. It turns out it is not feasble, I guess because it is too exausting to coordinate and everyone is busy.
DeleteI am always willing for a public debate carried on decently and based on facts, data and logic. But the other side is not.
DeleteI urge you to reach out to witzel and coordinate a debate. If witzel doesn’t use data or logic than he gets publicly exposed
DeleteDear Sir, Your points are well taken. You make a compelling case for the migration of people outside India during the composition of the new Rigveda. From the geographical extent of the old and new Rigvedas, I feel we have a plausible theory that the Harrapan people composed the old Rigveda before the mature phase (2600 - 1900 BC) and continued composition during the mature and late Harappan periods that coincided with the migrations towards east, west, and the south directions. Mummified Harrapans have been found in Tarim Basin of the Taklamakan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_mummies). They date to the 2nd millennium BC falling perfectly within the migratory phase. Indian research on these topics must be published in Indian peer-reviewed journals to quash the debate by dishonest academicians.
DeleteDid the composers of Avesta anywhere exclusively identify themselves as Bhrigus/Anus in their texts?
ReplyDeletePlease read my blog "The Recorded History of the Indo-European Migrations - Part 3 of 4 The Anu Migrations" for the full details, including the historical Iranian evidence.
DeleteThere are several Dravidian and Munda tribes, like the Assur tribe of Jharkhand who identify themselves with the Asuras. There are also faint memories among these tribes about their ancestors waging battles against Aryan Intruders and losing to them. Please refute these arguments.
DeleteAs the very concept of a race or community of people called "Aryans" started only with the discovery by European scholars a few centuries ago of the relationship between North Indian and European languages, and the word "Aryan" was decided by them as a name for these ancestral IE speakers, it is impossible that any tribe deep in the interior of the country could be having "faint memories .... about their ancestors waging battles against Aryan Intruders and losing to them" - when even the Rigveda more than 3000 years ago (even according to the AIT scholars) has no such memories. We cannot waste our time "refuting" new "memories" invented by recent ideologues and politicians.
DeleteThe Austroasiatics and the tribes of the vibdhyas were called “Shabara” or “nishada”, as opposed to asura.
DeleteIt seems that indologists are just beyond delusional, constantly paranoid about "dindutva" revisionism. I see this as just academic elitism. Only they are the final authority, and Indians are too biased to give any honest study into Indian history.
ReplyDeleteSir I have some doubts , how is yamnayas related to Rig vedic people ?? Who are the yavanas because in many sources yavanas (yauna) are referred in different contexts. As per academics yavanas were probably Greeks but if it so then why in older scriptures like mahabharata ,harvamsha they are mentioned to be either black yavanas defeated by krishna or people residing at North West frontier . In Tamil sangam literature there are six yavanas mentioned.How come Panini mention about yavanas while he lived almost 200 years before apparent greek expedition?
ReplyDeleteYavanas were kind of known due to the Persian empire
DeleteNot all the time ..Persian empire was contemporary to Scythian empire ...While even if u consider western scholars Mahabharata era was before parthian empire..And then why would harivamsa mentioned them as " Black yavanas" if u consider Greeks as fair skinned. There is a place in India jaunapur which is mainly apabhransa of yauna or yavanapur...And the name river yamuna of India (also mentioned in rig Veda) is similar to the name yamna/yamnaya...I believe yamnayas are the yavanas of Post Vedic scripture who resided in himachal Pradesh , upper madhya Pradesh hariyana region....In a scattered way who later migrated towards central asia steppes as mentioned in puranic scriptures.
DeleteThe war may have happened before Parthian empire but the text was written much later and has interpolations. Yavanas are one of them interpolations.This is where talageri would give the example of Sampoorna Ramayana and sitaphal and Ramaphala and how the fruit is introduced to India by Europeans.
DeleteWhen somebody in reddit enquired about druhyu-celtic druid connection this is what a redditor had to say
ReplyDelete"As far as the historical linguistics, the "Druhyus" and Latin druis, genitive druidis are completely unrelated. We have no idea what the Celts called their priests—"Druid" is a Greek-Latin term, from drus "wood, tree, oak tree" and the -idis suffix "offspring of." Cf Old Church Slavic dru˘va, Albanian dru/drushk, e.g. The tribe "Druhyus" is almost certainly from the PIE root dhreugh^2, "deceive, harm," giving us Old Indic present formation drúhyati "seeks to harm"; Old Persian imperfect adurujīya "was deceiving"; Avestan družaiti "lies, cheats"; Old High German triogan "deceive"; and for all the Skyrim fans, Old Norse draugr, "ghost, one who cheated death". The two are separated by geophgraphy, time and basic linguistics"
Just thought of bringing into your notice
Talageri, to clear up the confusion there are 2 people in the comments named “anonymous”
ReplyDelete"butparast" is a Persian word which probably came into vogue in Islamic times, based on the large number of Buddhist idols that the Muslims had to destroy in West Asoia and northwestern India. If you have some special knowledge that I don't, please let me know the exact reference in the exact Zoroastrian Avestan text which prohibits idol worship and hints at an earlier Iranian trend of idol-worship which made this prohibition necessary.
ReplyDeleteThe Druhyu-Anu-Puru base of the ancient Vedic, Avestan and Druid religions were basically based on fire-worship and worship of the elements. Every change in the non-idol-worshiping nature of these Druhyu-Anu-Puru religions can be traced to other cultures they came across. In Zoroastrianism no idols are worshipped, but the statues of winged people and animals found in every Parsi temple are borrowed from Assyrian and Mesopotamian sculptural and cultural styles.
If the Vedic people had idols as part of their religious rituals but "didn't bother recording it down" in the Vedic texts where they were describing all their rituals in excruciating detail, then I am afraid there is no sense in discussing the evidence of the Vedic texts. Let us decide the details of the Vedic religion on the basis of our imagination and wishes, or on the basis of divine revelations "seen" by modern rishis, rather than on a study of the available evidence.
Shrikant sir your works are really amazing. I have a page on Instagram with 5000 followers. I often share the information regarding Out of India theory and also the links of your blogs.
ReplyDeleteThank you. I was hoping Indo Europeans didn’t have idol worship. That would allow A Dravidian origin for the practice and thus would further cement Hindu customs to India alone.
ReplyDeleteOther North/East/West Indian cultures may have had idol worship,also we've found some figurines in IVC right, so you know they might be worshipping idols too. Also, it is not unreasonable to expect the general public to practice a simple form of worship other than chanting mantras and conducting yajnas. So I feel there might still be some ambiguity in that matter
ReplyDeleteJust my humble opinion,
~A2
We are proud of you Srikant g. You single handedly destroyed them and they have no way to counter you. Thats y they r maligning your image and work by lying.
ReplyDeleteTalageri ji see what kind of review of your fourth book written by this person on Amazon.in-
ReplyDeletePart 1-
"I've rewritten this review a few times because there are many ways to come at this argument.
Talageri is is not a geneticist, linguist or even really a religious scholar, and it shows.
Here's the structure of the argument (and it is hard to see given the mass of text) - Talageri is completely convinced of his own idiosyncratic dating of the Rig Veda (which is not shared by scholars). So he pits his (in his mind) completely certain dating of the Rig Veda against all the genetic and linguistic evidence. The form of his argument is essentially - "Look, I'm certain about this date for the Rig Veda, and there may be some uncertainty in the other evidence, so my (religious text based) certainty trumps this mountain of other evidence". The argument is similar in structure to other arguments based on religious texts - it pokes at minor uncertainties in the other data, while assuming complete certainty in the religious data, and ignores the broad structure of evidence in the mainstream data.
Linguistic: Having read Mallory and having a general background in linguistics, I found Talageri's analysis no where near the depth of what Mallory presents (or what I've encountered in other linguistic texts). Talageri seems to have a second-hand superficial understanding that often uses Wikipedia (!) to back up claims rather than actual scholarship (e.g. his quotes about Elamite!). I love wikipedia, but no self respecting researcher (or even popular science writer) would/should use Wikipedia as a *primary* source. He seems to mostly ignore the detailed knowledge of the branching of the IE languages that fully corresponds to geography and instead posits an alternative - a collection of pre-Sanskrit Indic languages that left the subcontinent and then settled in correct proximity in Europe, leaving no trace in India. He dismisses all the evidence from anatolian finds (like Hittite and Mittani) based on his own dating of events in the Rig Veda.
Religious: Here's what I believe is know about the Rig Veda. Individual bits were likely handed down quite precisely over long periods of time. But the order of the bits and the completeness of the bits is questionable. And there are definitely questions about the location of the events, but every book I've read describes it as a movement from the west to the Doab and then further east. Doing detailed readings of religious texts based on their inerrancy is generally not a recipe for success. Moreover, Talageri's readings of the Rig Veda have been specifically rebutted by actual academics who work in the area who state that he fundamentally misunderstands them."
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ReplyDeletePart 2-
ReplyDelete"Genetics: Talageri's lack of academic knowledge here is at its worst. He uses scare quotes for the word scientist and presents lots of dead-end arguments (I don't know why - they are confusing to follow and generally lead nowhere by his own account). The mainstream argumentis that there is no early indian DNA outside south asia so that it is pretty clear that early Indians did not migrate to Europe or elsewhere. That means that culture and language has to have spread without the people moving. That’s clearly possible, but it’s not easy (it happened with Buddhism migrating to China, but writing helped). However, given that the most plausible linguistic evidence lines up with an origin in the steppe, and the genetics says something very similar, the combination is very compelling. Against this, Talageri puts his own dating of the rig Veda and declares the mountain of evidence on the other side vanquished. His refutation of the genetics is has an ad hominem flavor (he mocks the scientists, and even the science of genetics).
He has lots of arguments that lead nowhere (by his own account). There are a few substantial arguments but they are (as far as I can tell) about the details of steppe mixing of peoples. But that’s hardly relevant to the broader fact that early Indian data is not found outside India and Steppe data is found in India - the basic critical point of the direction in which people moved.
Archaeology: There is the repeated claim of 'no archaelogical evidence' which seems untrue - there is evidence that dates the spread of the horse. There are very few horse skeletons in the Harappan remains, and many more after the putative date of the arrival of the steppe people. This is completely consistent with the genetics and the Rig Veda's emphasis on the horse and horse sacrifice. The writing found in anatolia etc. is also inconsistent in timeline with this out of India theory (except for the backdating based on the Rig Veda).
Style: The book is hard to plough through partly because it feels like a talk show argument. It is full of weird dead-end arguments and lots of stuff in bold, italics and underline (sometimes all three!). He uses language with negative suggestions in much the way one might in a casual argument, often feeling ad hominem (using the phrase '92 scientists and their spokesperson' dozens of times rather than referring to the actual paper, the word scientist in scare quote). Perhaps worst of all, he refers to Tony Joseph's presumed religion as itself cause for concern (in the intro) as well as the etymology of the name of the publisher(!).
While Talageri disavows any desire to be a Hindu nationalist, his argument has that flavor - of an amateur but dedicated reader of the literature. At some level, I found this interesting - it sharpened my understanding of the genetics and linguistics as I tried to follow the convoluted arguments against them. But at another level, this theory is so ridiculous today - it would be conclusively disproved by the linguistics, if nothing else. Add to that the genetics and OIT is a historic and political curiosity, with no scientific value. Which is why most of the people in this area are dabbling amateurs like Talageri. I realized that it is silly to waste time on this hypothetical that only makes sense if you are dead set on believing that India was the origin of the cultural indo european universe. Europeans seem perfectly comfortable with the fact that the the PIE culture and people did not originate in Europe. Russians don't take particular pride in being the source location of the PIE. However (some) Indians seem intent on claiming a history that is not theirs and not true."
amazon Shows this person from another country I don't why this westerner and some Indians Consider OIT is fringe like Flat-earth Theory.
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ReplyDeleteYes Talageri has loop holes especially with his dating of the Rig Veda and genetics. I have given solutions to these problems when I spoken to him. But too subborn. Its going to cost him. His works are not congruent. But nevertheless its enough to debunk the AIT/AMT side though not completely. He is my assessment:
ReplyDelete1. The dating must be anchored on the relative dating of the Buddha.
2. Dating of Buddha must be dating on relative dating of Chandragupta Maurya and Saka era.
3. The dating of Mauryas and Saka era must be independently verified without the use of the Puranas but conforms to it.
4. No selective or rejective evidencs.
5. The genetic evidence of an out-of-India theory will naturally transgress to an early period. 10,000 BC I suppose.
6. The Steppe ancestry in IVC will naturally comform to the arrival of the Greeks, Sakas and Huna around the late second millenium BCE.
7. Hence no contradition -> OIT gets proven.
I think you are inspired by vedaveer Arya, (I haven't listened to his videos but I think this is what he says) and thus talking like this, whatever you have written looks like fantasy to me, to be honest this is why no body takes OIT seriously, each person saying whatever that comes to their mind, just random bubbling.
DeleteTalageri sir's work looks credible enough for me, unless you specifically point out those alleged loop holes you are just wasting everyone's time
Its people like you who don't solve the root problem. If we take Shrikant Talageris work, its fit enough to dispel the doubts of an Aryan Invasion or Migration. But doesn't solve the entire Indian problem of Chronology, History, genetics and archeology. I Hope you understand there are other scholars who dated the RV. Eg. Nicholas Kazanas around 6000BC. His reasons are valid, its clearly a pre urban culture. No reference to bricks, cotton, cities...etc. I also made it clear that the Puranic dating should be validated using other means, but you call this fantasy. You sound like a very ignorant person. You seriously dont what you talking nor have the slightest idea of what I am saying. As for your information I dont accept Vedveers dating totally I have my doubts. However his dating is very close to the ones that seems to make sense. Here is something for you, did the current dating of Indian historical figures and events are based on archeology or was it on epochs, astronomy and textual evidences? William Jones, Max Muller to Michel Witzel are passing on a common thread that is selective rejection and selective acceptance of data/evidence. If you can question the dating of Rig Veda why not the dating of Buddha or Chandragupa Mauryu. If the lower dates are changed that will certainly cause a domino effect. Search that up. I hope I am making sense, if Chandragupta Chandragupta maurya is pushed to an earlier then so to for the Rig Veda.
DeleteAlthough I would love the prospect of pushing the Vedas to 4-5 th millenium BC, linguistics and relative chronology do not permit that. For example you are implying that Avestan gathas of Zaratushtra belong to 4-5 th millenium BC, does that look realistic to you? I'm sorry, it is what it is
DeleteBefore I finish the comment, I want to make it clear that there are two different people with the username “anonymous”. So I will refer to the other anonymous as “anonymous 2” and myself as “anonymous 1)
DeleteAny way, vedveers chronology is sound for Mahabharata and the kings after. It is the pre Mahabharata chronology that Vedveer Arya’s analysis breaks down and Talageri prevails. Remember that Talageri said that Puranas can’t be reliable for chronology of Vedic kings as they are inconsistent (unlike post Vedic kings)
Anyway anonymous 2 does have a point.
DeleteRaghavar, you are free to feel I am stubborn, and that Ved veer Arya's dates are close if that makes you happy. And about your prediction that it will "cost me", the only thing that it will cost me is adulation from religiously obsessed Hindus during my lifetime: see the multitudes of Hindus who are thrilled by the datings of Vedveer Arya and Nilesh Oak, and the great financial benefits to those writers of this adulation.
DeleteBut when all the prejudiced dust from all sides has settled down it will be my work which will be accepted as the logical one, although this may be long after I die, but that is what matters to me. Truth, Logic and Honesty matter more to me than present financial costs and profits. You may say it was not financial "costs" you were talking about, but ultimately that is what it boils down to.
https://milaap.org/fundraisers/support-aktk-media-private-limited
ReplyDeleteShrikant ji I want to see you in this documentary..
https://www.quora.com/Is-the-Indus-Valley-civilisation-Aryan-or-Dravidian/answer/Ambika-Vijay?ch=10&oid=347493919&share=feb9127c&srid=uKE2d&target_type=answer, I feel this is the ultimate summary of AIT/AMT as of today and I think you've addressed most of the topics, if not all. Just wanted to give you an update!
ReplyDeleteYes, as you can see, every single fact is ignored, and the writer blissfully repeats every cliche used in the AIT/AMT arguments as if blissfully unaware that each and every one of these arguments has been found t be full of gaping wide holes. Such liex will continue till a court case examines the evidence from both sides and presents the evidence. Note that till the day the SC gave its final ruling in the Ayodhya case, "scholars" and "academicians" continued to claim there was no temple below the Babri structure. Now they are largely mum on the issue.
DeleteWhat does it say of the intellectual level of the wrier and his theory, that he tells us that "bull was the most depicted animal in their seals", and a little before this he tells us that the IV people were farmers and hunter-gatherers, and dairying was brought in by the "Aryans" from the Steppes (although the only cattle known in the area are the local Bos indicus and not the Steppe bos taurus)!
Naturally the evidence of the Rigvedic-Avestan-Mitanni common vocabulary and the geography of the Old vis-a-vis the New Rigveda (tha latter of which has this common vocabulary) is totally ignored.
These are not scholars or even writers, they are out-and-out crooks.
It's a "she", sir. Actually this AIT vs OIT debate has been going on for quite a while now and when the OIT camp used your arguments, it ended up with ad hominem attacks on you. The problem is nobody even wants to look at OIT because of lack of peer reviewed papers and direction of movement of migration (genetics) has convinced people so much so that nobody cares about the entry time of steppe into India.
DeleteHonestly I don't think she is an out and out crook. She believes what she represents but has a clouded judgement. She has deep knowledge about genetics and and is convinced that it rules out OIT. There is an interesting debate going on about "consumption of beef in Harappa" and both sides are giving their all to support their viewpoints.
https://spaceoftrueindology.quora.com/Did-Harappans-consume-beef-Part-1?ch=10&oid=65069644&share=7af1b26e&srid=uKE2d&target_type=post
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ReplyDelete