Wednesday, 13 August 2025

The Alleged Elamite-Dravidian Relationship

 


The Alleged Elamite-Dravidian Relationship

Shrikant G. Talageri

  

Someone drew my attention to the increasingly strident claims about the alleged relationship between Elamite and Dravidian being repeatedly bandied around on the internet, and asked for my comments. As I have already referred to this claim in earlier articles, there should have been no need for this article to express my views or comments on the subject. But perhaps a more detailed answer would not be out of place, since, for various reasons, many of those actively propagating this relationship, and touting a “Dravidian Invasion/Migration Theory” into India from the area of the extinct Elamite civilization (southwestern-Iran and adjoining parts of Iraq) are actually opponents of the AIT!

 

Here is what the Wikipedia article on “Elamite Language” has to say about these claims: “Elamite is regarded by the vast majority of linguists as a language isolate,[29][30] as it has no demonstrable relationship to the neighbouring Semitic languagesIndo-European languages, or to Sumerian, despite having adopted the Sumerian-Akkadian cuneiform script.

An Elamo-Dravidian family connecting Elamite with the Brahui language of Pakistan and Dravidian languages of India was suggested in 1967 by Igor M. Diakonoff[31] and later, in 1974, defended by David McAlpin and others.[32][33] In 2012, Southworth proposed that Elamite forms the "Zagrosian family" along with Brahui and, further down the cladogram, the remaining Dravidian languages; this family would have originated in Southwest Asia (southern Iran) and was widely distributed in South Asia and parts of eastern West Asia before the Indo-Aryan migration….” − those opponents of the AIT who support the DIT, of course, postulate this alleged migration from Elam to India during the period of an Indo-Aryan speaking native Indian civilization – but the article starts out with “Elamite is generally thought to have no demonstrable relatives and is usually considered a language isolate”, and concludes with: “None of these ideas [of connections between Elamite and Dravidian or other languages] have been accepted by mainstream historical linguists”. But the efforts are still on from all sides!

 

Strangely, despite determined efforts by these scholars, there is hardly anything in the data to support this alleged connection (and resultant migration from Elam to India).

 

It is notable that very little data about the Elamite vocabulary is available – certainly not enough to make such spurious claims worthy of consideration. Even the number words are not known: a search on google for “Elamite number words” elicits the information: “The Elamite language, spoken in ancient Elam (present-day Iran), utilized a decimal number system, likely derived from finger-counting, but the specific Elamite words for numbers are not recorded”.

 

A specific inquiry about Elamite vocabulary in Wiktionary (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Elamite_word_list) gives us a list of basic words compiled by Blažek:

 

List

No.

English gloss

Elamite

1.212

earth=ground, soil

muru-; mu-ru-it; mu-ru-un

1.213

dust

su-uk-ma

1.220

mountain, hill

am-ni

1.270

shore

šà-ri-ut

1.280

cave

du-ráš

1.310

water

zul; zu-ul

1.320

sea

kam

1.370

spring, well

zu-ul.la-li

1.420

tree

husa; hu-sa; hu-sa-a

1.430

wood

hu-h-qat; hu-uk; ma-lu

1.440

stone, rock

har; ú-h-um-ma

1.520

sun

na-h-hu-un-te; na-hi-ti; na-hu-te

1.530

moon

na-ap-ir; na-pir

1.540

star

mar-du

1.550

lightning

luk; lu-uk

1.590

rainbow

ma-an-za-at

1.610

light (noun)

hun; hu-un; hu-ni-in

1.630

shade, shadow

šad-da-ku

1.710

air

si-me-in

1.750

rain (noun)

te-ip

1.810

fire

lim; li-im

1.852

burn (vb intrans)

lim-; lum-; li-im-ma-áš-pi; li-im-ma-ak; lu-mu-un-ra

2.210

man (vs. woman)

bali; ba-li-be; ru-h; ru-ú

2.230

male

ba-li-na

2.240

female

mu-h-ti-ir-ri; mu-h-ti-be; mu-tur

2.251

young man (adolescent)

pu-hu

2.261

young woman (adolescent)

pu-h

2.270

child

pu-hi-e; ma-ul; ma-ul-li

2.280

infant, baby

zin; zí-in

2.320

wife

ir-ti-ri; ri-tu; ri-ti; ru-tu; ru-tú; mu-tar; mu-ti

2.350

father

atta; ad-da; at-ta

2.360

mother

amma; am-ma

2.410

son

pu-hu; ru-hu; šak; ša-ak; šá-ak; šá-ag-gi

2.420

daughter

pak; pa-ak

2.430

offspring (son or daughter)

puhu; pu-hu

2.440

brother

i-gi

2.450

sister

šutu; šu-tú

2.480

grandson

ru-hu.šá-ak-ri

2.510

uncle

eri; e-ri-ri

2.550

cousin

iza; i-za

2.631

son-in-law (of a woman)

iš-ti-ri

2.810

relatives, kinsmen

a-a-ni-ip; a-a-ni-ri

2.910

I

u; ù

2.920

you (singular)

ni; nu

2.942

we (exclusive)

ni-ka; nu-ku

2.950

you (plural)

nu-mi

3.110

animal

kun; ku-un

3.150

livestock

áš; ki-ti

3.160

pasture

ahiš; a-h-iš; ki-bat

3.180

herdsman

ba-at -ir; ku-dúr

3.200

cattle (bovine)

kutu; ku-tu

3.220

ox

pu-up-hi-in

3.240

calf

tila; ti-la

3.250

sheep

hidu; hi-du

3.260

ram

ráp-du; ráp-tam

3.290

lamb

kari; qa-ri; qa-ri-ri

3.350

pig

pap-pi

3.360

goat

kipšu; kupši; ki-ip-ši; ki-ip-šu; ku-ip-šu; šá-h-ši-ik-me-me

3.370

he-goat

kumaš; ku-maš

3.380

kid

pitu; pi-tú; pi-tu

3.410

horse (equine)

lakpilan; lak-pi-la-an

3.450

foal, colt

dudu; du-du; du-ud-du

3.460

ass, donkey

du-ip; tranku; it-ra-an-ku; ši-ši

3.470

mule

paha; pa-ha

3.500

fowl

zamama; za-ma-ma

3.540

hen

rum; ru-um

3.560

goose

hi-pu-ur; ip-pu-ur

3.570

duck

šu-da-ba

3.580

nest

hu-pi-e

3.581

bird

ti-ut

3.584

eagle

ba-zi-zi; ba-iz-zí-zí

3.592

parrot

qa-iš-ba-h

3.610

dog

hal-ki-ni

3.710

wolf

duma; du-ma

3.780

camel

zibbaru; zib-ba-ru

3.815

scorpion

lahi; la-hi

3.840

worm

za-na-bu-na

3.850

snake

šin; ši-in-pi; šim-bi

4.120

skin, hide

ha-te-en

4.130

flesh

i-iš-ti

4.140

hair (head)

*ku-na; še-e

4.150

blood

san; sa-an

4.170

horn

kassu; qa-as-su; kás-su

4.200

head

ukku; uk-ku; uk-gi; ukku.e

4.210

eye

el; el-ti

4.220

ear

siri; si-ri

4.230

nose

ši-um-me; šim.e

4.260

tongue

tit; ti-ut

4.270

tooth

sihhan; si-h-ha

4.280

neck

ti-pi

4.330

hand

kir-; kur-; ki-ir-pi; kur-pi

4.344

fingernail

pur; pu-ur

4.370

foot

pat; ba-at; pa-at

4.393

feather

putmaš; pu-ut-ma-áš

4.440

heart

buni; bu-ni

4.450

liver

ru-el-pa-mín

4.490

testicle

ruku; ru-ku

4.720

born (to be)

kuši-; ku-ši-in; ku-ši-iš

4.732

conceive

du-; du-h; du-iš; duk

4.740

live, living, life

ta-ak-me; da-ak-ki-me; ta-ak-ki-me

4.750

die, dead

halpi-; hal-pi-ik; hal-pi-ip; la-ha-an

4.810

strong, mighty, powerful

ib-ba-ak; šilha-; šil-ha-h; ši-il-ha-ak; ši-il-me

4.820

weak

iš-tuk-ra

4.852

bruise

ha-pi

4.860

cure, heal

si-it-ti; si-it-me

4.880

medicine, drug

qa-pu-ur

5.120

food

ab-be-be

5.230

roast, fry

kura-; ku-ra-at; ku-ra-ak

5.340

pitcher, jug

piti; pi-ti

5.370

spoon

ki-mal-tam

5.380

knife (2)

du-šu-um-ya; du-ši-um; du-ši-um-ir-ra

5.510

bread

ši-ip-ru-um; ši-ip-ri-um

5.550

meal, flour

e-ul; u-ma-ma

5.710

fruit

hurpi; hu-ur-pi; zib-ba

5.750

fig

pi-ut-

5.760

grape

šá-ap-pan-na; šap

5.790

oil

appi; ap-pi

5.791

grease, fat

abba; ab-ba

5.810

salt

anzi; an-zí

5.840

honey

hal -la -ki

5.860

milk (noun)

sir-na

5.880

cheese

pa

5.940

fermented drink

an-na-in

6.130

tailor

šá-h-ši-ik-ra

6.210

cloth

tam-ši-um; ik-tin

6.220

wool

tuk-ki-me; tuk-na; im-na

6.230

linen, flax

zali; za-li

6.240

cotton

qa-li-tam

6.270

felt

da-bar-ri-um

6.290

leather

šá-ir-šá-at-ti

6.330

weave

kurza-; kur-za-iš; kur-za-qa

6.410

cloak

uk-ku-la-ki

6.430

coat

hu-el-ip

6.510

shoe

ha-šá-ir

6.550

hat, cap

uk-ku.ba-ti

6.580

glove

kur-ip

6.710

ornament, adornment

qa-ar-ra-h; qa-ar-ra-ha

6.730

ring (for finger)

šà-mi; si-mi-it-tum

6.910

comb

ah-hu-um; a-h-hu-im

6.940

ointment

hasu; ha-su-ip; mi-ir-ri-h

6.960

mirror

šu-ha; šu-ha.zi-la

7.120

house

a-a-in; a-hi-in; ha-a-in; a-i-in; a-a-ni

7.150

yard, court

tu-uš; ulhi; ul-hi

7.220

door, gate

hu-el; hi-el; el; e-el; e-ul; ú-el; lu-gu-ú

7.221

doorpost, jamb

hal-ti; ha-al-te-te

7.250

window

ku-un-nir

7.270

wall

te-ip-ta; hu-hu-un

7.320

stove

ku-ra-am-ma; ku-ra-na

7.422

blanket

gi-ut-máš-te; gi-ut-máš-ti

7.450

lamp, torch

hun; hu-ni-ir; hu-un-pu

7.510

roof

a-ri; ku-uk; me-nu-me

7.550

beam

te-ti

7.560

post, pole

šali; ša-li

7.570

board

šil-tur

7.620

brick

e-ri-en-tum; ú-ri-en-tu; hu-us-si-ip; ú-pa-at

8.120

field (for cultivation)

hal-la

8.130

garden

ya-ad-da

8.210

plow

āpi-; a-a-pi-h

8.240

shovel

atti; at-ti; šullu; šu-ul-lu

8.250

hoe

at-ti

8.311

seed

par; pa-ar

8.410

crop, harvest

hal-te-me; šu-lu-um

8.420

grain (barley, oats etc)

tarmi; tarmu; tar-mi; tar-mu; mu-ša-al-lu

8.430

wheat

ši-man

8.440

barley

kur-ru-sa; nu

8.570

flower

mi-ik-ki-ma

8.760

sap

in-na-in; mu-ul-li; mi-el; mi-ul

9.110

do, make

huta-; hu-ud-da; hu-taš; hu-tan-ki; hu-ut-táh; hu-ut-te-eš

9.160

tie, bind

rabba-; ra-ab-ba-h; ráb-ba-qa

9.190

rope, cord

šá-am

9.210

strike (hit, beat)

halpi-; halpu-; hal-pu-h; hal-pi-ya

9.220

cut

máš-áš; šahši-; šá-h-ši-qa

9.250

ax

ipiš; i-pi-iš; hi-pi-is

9.330

pull

sa-; sa-h

9.430

carpenter

be-la-ti-ra; kiš-ki-ip-man-na

9.440

build

kuši-; ku-ši-ha; ku-si-iš; ku-ši-ik

9.460

bore

du-li-ib-be

9.480

saw

el-pi

9.490

hammer

sa-el

9.500

nail

sikti; zikti; si-ik-ti; zik-ti-ip

9.600

smith, blacksmith

kás-zí-ra

9.610

forge

kassa-; kassi-; kazza-; kazzi-; qa-as-si-it-ri; qa-az-za-ak

9.630

cast (metals)

šari-; ša-ri-h

9.640

gold

la-an-si-ti-e; la-áš-da

9.650

silver

lani; la-a-ni

9.660

copper, bronze

e-ri-ni; sa-h; sa-hi-i; si-hi-kak

9.670

iron

har-gi; har-ki-an-na

9.680

lead (noun)

ri-kur

9.690

tin, tinplate

a-na-ku

9.730

clay

halat; ha-la-at

9.760

basket

še-ri-it

9.771

rug

za-ba-ar

9.890

paint (vb)

karsu-; kar-su-iš-da; kar-su-qa

10.252

catch (ball)

mari-; ma-ri-h; ma-ri-en-t

10.450

walk

pari-; uzzu-; uz-zu-un; uz-zu-un-ta

10.480

come

izzi-; iz-zí-iš; šinni-; šinnu-; ši-in-nu-ik; ši-in-nu

10.610

carry (bear)

kuti-; ku-ti-na; ku-ti-šá

10.620

bring

tela-; te-la-ak-ni; te-la-ni-li

10.630

send

da-; da-an-da; da-h

10.660

ride

te-li-nu-ip

10.710

road

ba-u; bar-du; hu-te

10.780

yoke

za-ap-pan

11.130

take

duma; du-ma; du-ma-iš

11.210

give

duna-; duni-; du-ni-h; du-ni-ha; du-na-áš; du-na-qa; li-; li-h; li-ik

11.240

preserve, look after

kutu-; ku-tu-un; ku-tu-uš-li

11.270

destroy

sari-; sa-ri-h; sa-ri-in-ti

11.320

find

bakka-; ba-ak-qa-h

11.510

rich

sir

11.640

debt

a-h-da-a

11.650

pay (vb)

un-sa-ha; un-sa-iš; za-ag-gi-iš

11.780

wages

te-um-be; ha-nu

11.870

price

šá-ak-ki-me; šá-ak-ki-mi; šá-gi-me

12.11

behind

ki-ik; me-mi; me-ni

12.110

place

kate; qa-te; qa-te-ma

12.120

put

bela-; pela-; be-la; be-ip-la; da-; ta-; ta-at; da-h

12.220

join, unite

ta-rí-ir; ta-ri-ip

12.240

open

te-iš; tu-um-ba-h

12.250

shut, close

kappa-; kap-pa-iš

12.40

before

tibbe; ti-ib-ba

12.41

front

ti-ib-ba; si-ma

12.440

far (adv)

šá-da-ni-qa

12.450

east

ha-tin; ha-te-um-me

12.460

west

šu-tin

12.50

inside, in

a-ti-in; a-ti-ra; ha-ti

12.550

large, big

azza-; hazza-; az-za-qa; ha-iz-za-ik-qa; ha-za-qa; rša-; ir-šá-na; ri-ša-ar

12.560

small, little

tila; ti-la

12.60

outside

ki-du-ú-ya; ki-du-ur; ki-du-um-ma; ki-du

12.650

thin (in dimension)

zikki; zik-ki

12.670

deep

du-šá-ra-ma

12.70

under

šá-ra

12.710

flat

ma-šu-um

12.730

straight

iš-tur-rák-qa

12.810

round

irpi; ir-pi

12.820

circle

pur; pu-ur

12.830

sphere, ball

še-be

13.10

one

ki; ki-ik; ki-ir

13.140

every, all

un-ra

13.150

much, many

ir-še-ik-ki

13.170

little (quantity), few

ha-ri-ik-ki

13.20

two

mar; ma-ir; mar-ra

13.210

full

huh; hu-úh

13.230

part, piece

áš

13.240

half

pír-ni; pír-nu-šu; pír-nu-ba

13.30

three

ziti; zí-ti

13.340

first

ap-pu-qa-na

13.370

pair

tuk

13.50

five

*tu-ku

14.110

time

da-la-ri; dalar.e

14.140

young

puhu.na; pu-hu-na; pu-u-na; pu-un-na

14.150

old

kara; qa-ra

14.160

early

irpi; urpu-; ir-pi; ur-pu-ub-ba; ap-pu-qa

14.170

late

maš-šá; me-šá

14.180

now

a-am; am

14.260

end (temporal)

mur

14.270

finish

tar-ma; tar-maš

14.310

always

a-ka-da

14.332

long-time (for a)

me-ul-li

14.350

again

ki-qa

14.410

day

na; nan:; na-an-me; na-an-na

14.420

night

ši-ut-ma-na; šu-ut-me; šu-ut-ti-me

14.460

evening

te-man; ki-in-na-ra

14.710

month

na-na-me-na; si-in

14.730

year

pi-el; be-ul

15.350

sweet

tena; te-na; hal-ki; halki

15.380

acid, sour

lu-lu-ki; lu-lu-qa

15.410

hear

hap-; ha-ap-hu; ha-ap-ti

15.460

quiet, silence

šà-na

15.510

see

siya-; ziya-; si-ya-nu-un; si-ya-h; si-ya-áš-na; zí-ya

15.550

show

šammi-; ša-am-me-iš; ša-am-mi-iš-ta

15.640

white

ši-mi-ut

15.670

blue

da-ban-ti-na

15.680

green

hu-la-ap-na; hu-ra-ap-na

15.690

yellow

šu-un-ti-na

15.810

heavy

ab-ba-ra

15.840

dry

zí-ti-qa

16.180

good fortune, luck

šá-da; šá-ud-da; ši-ri; šu-ru; šu-ri-na

16.230

joyful, glad, happy

tan-na-am-me

16.270

love

hani-; ha-ni-eš; ha-ni-ik; ha-ni-in; ha-ni-me

16.510

dare

qa-du-uk-qa

16.530

fear, fright

ipši; ip-ši-ip; ip-ši-iš

16.650

faithful

ha-mi-ti; ha-mi-it

16.660

true

siri; si-ri

16.670

lie, tell lies

tit-; ti-ti-ip; ti-ut-ki-um-me

16.710

good

a-a; ba-ha

16.720

bad

muš-nu-ik

16.790

praise

hi-šá

16.810

beautiful

ši-iš-ni

17.130

think (= reflect)

lma-; el-ma; el-man-da; el-man-ti; ul-ma

17.150

believe

uri-; u-ri-iš

17.170

know

turna-; tur-nah; tur-na-u-ut

17.450

need, necessity

me-en

17.510

and

ayak; a-ak; ya-ak

17.520

because

appa; ap-pa

17.530

if

an-ka; an-qa

17.560

no, negative

in-gi; in-na; im-ma; in-ni

17.610

how?

ap-pa

17.640

what?

appa; ap-pa

17.660

where?

mur; mu-ur

17.670

which?

akka; ag-ga; ak-ka; ak-qa

18.210

speak, talk

turi; turu-; tu-ru-nu-un-ki; tu-ru-h; tur-ri-qa

18.220

say

tiri-; turu-; ti-ri-in-ri; ti-ri; tu-ru-uk; tu-ru-un

18.260

word

šukkit; šu-uk-ki-it

18.280

name

hiš; hi-iš

18.360

promise

kulla-; ku-ul-la-h

18.410

call (=summon)

kulla-; ku-ul-la-h; ku-ul-la-hu

18.510

write

dallu-; tallu-; ta-al-lu-h; da-al-lu-ha; ta-al-lu-h-šu

18.520

read

bera-; pera-; be-ra-an; be-ip-ra-an-ti; be-ip-rák

19.110

country

hal; ha-al

19.150

city, town

a-al

19.210

people (populace)

taš-šu-up; taš-šu-íp; hu-úr-du

19.230

tribe, clan

ah-pi; a-h-pi

19.320

king, ruler

sunki; zunki; su-gìr; su-kip; su-un-gìr; su-un-ki-ir; su-un-ki-ip; su-un-ki-kip

19.410

master

ðimpti; si-im-it; te-im-ti; te-ip-ti; mu-uk-ti

19.420

slave

li-ba-um-me; šá-u-lu-be

19.430

servant

liba-; li-ba-ir

19.440

freeman

šalu.r; šá-lu-ur

19.450

command, order

me-el; gi-il; šera-; še-ra-h; še-ra-h-ši

19.510

friend, companion

duk-ti-ir; kán-ir-ra

19.520

enemy

beti; bi-ti-ir; pi-ti-ir; be-ti; be-it-ra

19.580

help, aid

ta-; taš; táh-ha-an-ta; táh-ha-an-te

20.110

fight (vb)

be-ut

20.140

peace

gugu; gu-gu

20.150

army

hi-it

20.210

weapons, arms

ul-ki-na

20.220

club

šá-li-mi

20.240

bow

qa-am-ban

20.250

arrow

ti-ut-ti-um; hi-iš-ki; sa-h

20.260

spear

šu-kur-ru-um

20.330

helmet

kar-ik

20.410

victory

me-te

20.480

booty, spoils

pu-uk-ri-ir

21.110

law

šu-du-ur; šu-tur

21.230

witness

gini; ginu; gi-ni-ip; gi-ni-pi; gi-nu-ip

21.240

swear

gi-ri-ip; gi-ri

21.520

thief

tu-uš-šu-íp

22.120

God

nap; nab; na-ap; na-ab-ba; na-ap-pi; na-bí-ip

22.150

sacrifice, offering

dala; da-la

22.180

priest

šà-ti; šá-tin; šá-tan

22.190

holy, sacred

ak-pi; ak-pi-ip

22.310

heaven

kik; ki-ki-in; ki-ki-ip; ki-ik

 

 

I, for one, totally fail to understand how any honest scholar, examining the above list, can possibly feel that there is any scope of connections between any of the basic Elamite words in the above list with their Dravidian counterparts, let alone any scope for claiming that Elamite and Dravidian belong to one language family and that the Dravidian languages migrated from Elam to India at any conceivable time in the past. However many “similarities” anyone may be capable of trying to drum up between the two, can two languages allegedly related to each other as members of one language family develop such totally unconnectable lists of basic words as Elamite in the above list and Proto-Dravidian in any reconstructed list of words with the same meanings, both languages being more or less contemporaneous ones in the ancient past? Simple common sense should give the answer.

[For those who would notice that the Elamite and Dravidian words for “you” are both ni, it may be pointed out that the Chinese and the Navajo (American Indian) words for “you” are also ni. Such coincidences do not prove relationships within a language family].


15 comments:

  1. Namaste Shrikant Sir, I belong a small community settled in north Karnataka (originally from Mandavgarh, MP) who trace their origin to King Kartavirya Arjuna. I’ve been following your work for many years and would like to know if you still stand by your claim that Kutsa Arjuni found in Rig Veda was the son of Kartavirya Arjuna? (The Aryan Invasion Theory and Indian Nationalism, pg. no 335)

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    1. Yes, in my first book in 1993, where I had not yet done any research myself on the Rigveda, and had not ever myself even seen a copy of the Rigveda, and where I was merely retailing the interpretations of Bhargava and Pargiter, I did write: "Firstly, The Puranas clearly state that the Haihayas lived in Avanti and Mahismau (in western Madhya Pradesh) and that the Yadavas lived further south in Gujarat and Vidarbha. This is confirmed by the evidence of the Rigveda: not a single early Yadava king is mentioned in the Rigveda, and the only Haihaya kings mentioned arc Arjuna and Vitahavya".

      But in later books, based on my own research, I have never reiterated these identifications. I am sure Vitahavya in the Rigveda is some other person, or has an abstract meaning such as "oblation", depending on the context. Even in my 1993 book, I mention these two names as exceptions to the general trend of Haihaya names.

      About Kutsa Arjuneya, in my 2000 book, "The Rigveda, A Historical Analysis", I realized that the phrase refers to the white flash of lightning or Indra's thunderbolt:
      "the mythical Kutsa is a highly anthropomorphised form of the thunderbolt from the very beginning. However, the confusion has been only in the minds of the interpreters of the hymns. The composers were under no delusions about the identity of this mythical Kutsa, and the evidence identifying this Kutsa with the thunderbolt is overwhelming:
      1. The Naighaṇṭuka (2.20) gives Kutsa as one of the synonyms of Vajra (the thunderbolt).
      2. Kutsa is given the epithet Arjuneya in four of the above hymns (I.112.23; IV.26.1; VII. 1?.2; VIII.1.11). This is wrongly interpreted as a patronymic of the Ṛṣi Kutsa. Actually, this is an epithet signifying the white flash of the thunderbolt.
      In another verse, III.44.5 (which does not refer to Kutsa), arjunam, the Bright, is given as a synonym of vajram.
      3. All the references to the mythical Kutsa (except the two by the Kutsas themselves: I.106.6; 112.7, 23) refer directly or indirectly to a celestial battle between Indra, the thunder-god, and Śuṣṇa, the demon of drought whose other epithet is kuyava, bad grain. (Two of the verses, IV.26.1 and X.40.6, only mention Kutsa, and do not refer to this battle, but other factors show that it is the mythical Kutsa who is being referred to.)
      The place of Kutsa in these references can be understood only on the basis of his identity as the personified form of Indra’s thunderbolt…” etc."

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    2. Thank you so much sir for the clarification. Really appreciate the time and effort you put into your response. Could you kindly also explain why are you so sure that Vitahavya in the RV is not the same as Vitahavya - the Haihaya, who as per MBH became a Brahmin under Bhrigu?

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    3. Well, in the first place the presence of this Haihaya king in the Rigveda was an anomaly and did not fit in with the rest of the data. You will notice that even in that 1993 nook, I wrote: "not a single early Yadava king is mentioned in the Rigveda, and the only Haihaya kings mentioned are Arjuna and Vitahavya" as seeming exceptions to a rule. It was my first book, and, as I mentioned above, I had not yet even seen a copy of the Rigveda before, let alone done any detailed study of the Rigvedic data. I was forced to include the name of Vitahavya because it was there in the Puranic lists (and so I could not say "not a single early Yadava king is mentioned in the Rigveda" without mentioning this name) even though I could not see any context. Secondly, all the translators of the Rigveda of the Rigveda have translated the word either as oblation or as the name of a person unconnected with the Puranic person of that name.

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    4. Thank you sir. That makes sense as one of the etymologies provided for Havyaka Brahmins (found in Karnataka) is “performers of oblations / havana rituals”.

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    5. On a related note, I would like to draw your attention to what I believe is a significant and disturbing trend in the portrayal of certain Itihasa-Purana narratives.

      As mentioned earlier, my community identifies as Somavanshi Kshatriyas tracing lineage to King Kartavirya Arjuna. We are known as Pategar or Savaji, primarily concentrated in Maharashtra and Northern Karnataka, with smaller populations in Gujarat, Andhra Pradesh, and Tamil Nadu. Being devout Hindus, children in our community are enrolled in RSS shakhas from as early as age six, and much of the RSS/BJP cadre in regions such as Hubli, Gadag, Belgaum, Savadatti, Gajendragad, Bijapur, Bagalkot, and Davangere comes from our community.
      (1/5)

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    6. Like most Kshatriya groups, we preserve our traditions and identity through oral narratives and genealogists (bhaats), wherein King Kartavirya Arjuna is revered as a benevolent ruler who met an unfortunate end at the hands of Parashurama. For centuries, a delicate equilibrium has existed in the portrayal of Kartavirya vis-à-vis Parashurama. However, in recent years, two unsettling tendencies have become increasingly prominent:
      1. Kartavirya Arjuna is frequently depicted as an asura or rakshasa, and
      2. A condescending attitude has emerged among certain Brahmin groups, wherein Parashurama is exalted as an ideal figure, accompanied by pride in the myth of the Bhargava-led “genocide of the Kshatriyas.”
      (2/5)

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    7. Closer examination of the Mahabharata and the Puranas reveals that multiple traditions of the same episode coexist. For example, the Brahmanda Purana narrates the story of Kartavirya twice: once in the genealogical account (recited by Sūta), where he is described as a noble king slain by Parashurama, and again in the section devoted to Parashurama, where the narrative—what Pargiter aptly termed a “farrago of absurdities”—portrays Kartavirya as unequivocally evil. Similar contradictions are visible in the Padma and Agni Purana, while texts such as the Markandeya, Vishnu, Brahma, and Bhagavata Purana either portray him positively or adopt a neutral stance.
      (3/5)

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    8. Nevertheless, the dominant “Brahmanical” version of Kartavirya’s defeat and the purported 21-fold extermination of Kshatriyas by Parashurama is derived largely from the Mahabharata. As V.S. Sukthankar demonstrated, the epic was significantly redacted by the Bhargavas, making its antagonistic stance unsurprising. Yet, even within the Mahabharata, two distinct versions survive: the Aranyaka Parva, which reflects a clear Bhargava standpoint, and the Shanti Parva, which is relatively neutral. Notably, the Shanti Parva version was excluded from the Critical Edition as a “late interpolation,” suggesting the presence of competing traditions and redactors who rejected the Bhargava perspective. Sukthankar further observed that the Bhargavas’ obsessive vilification of Kartavirya likely stemmed from “an intolerable inferiority complex,” arising from their near-extermination at the hands of the Haihayas, as reflected in the Aurva legend. Building on this, some scholars have even suggested that Parashurama himself may have been a Bhargava invention. Pargiter, meanwhile, notes that the devastation attributed to Parashurama in the Purāṇic imagination could in fact reflect the historical raids of the Talajhangas, who, like the Marathas centuries later, destabilized large parts of northern India.
      (4/5)

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    9. These patterns strongly suggest a deliberate effort by the Bhargavas to undermine Kartavirya Arjuna and the Kshatriyas, motivated by what Sukthankar termed an “ulterior motive.”

      In my own writings for community magazines, which are generally well received, I have consciously avoided raising this subject, as it risks unsettling the delicate fabric of Hindu society in Northern Karnataka and may create distrust towards both Brahmins and Hindu scriptures - both of which are deeply revered within my community.

      While you have written about the Veda-centric orientation of Hinduism, I would humbly request you to also consider addressing the Brahmin-centric redactions and narratives which continue to shape sectarian perceptions within Hindu society. At a time when scholarly resources and textual material are more widely accessible than ever - even to laypersons such as myself - it is crucial to revisit these inherited portrayals with rigour and balance.

      Thank you once again for your valuable time.
      (5/5)

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    10. Thank you very much for all this detailed information. Two points:

      1. In my analysis of Vedic history in my books, I have pointed out that the Bhargavas were originally priests of the Anus (proto-Iranians, etc.) and one section among them, Jamadagni and Parshurama, joined up with the Purus and Vedic priesthood, and later actually became the most dominant family of Vedic priests who edited and gave us the final version of the Mahabharata (and even the only extant version, Shakala, of the Rigveda, is a Bhrgu version: Shakala being a Bhrgu gotra). And while there may have been plenty of motivated interpolations by the Bhrgu ( the mahabharata, you point out, makes the son of Kartavirya Arjuna jin the Bhrgus), they have also carried forward moost of the myths which make the Bhrgus the priests of the Asuras.

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    11. Thank you, sir. While it is true that the Bhṛgus have preserved many of their ancient myths, I would like to offer a few considerations and would be grateful to know your thoughts:

      1. As you have observed, Jamadagni was contemporary with Visvamitra. By this synchronicity, Kartavīrya too would have lived during the early Rig Vedic period (Mandala 3). To suggest that centuries later the Bhṛgu redactors of the Mahabharata remembered their feud with Kartavirya and deliberately antogonised him - while at the same time “unconsciously” perpetuating their affiliation with the Anus/Asuras - seems, in my opinion, somewhat naive.

      2. Although the Bhṛgus are frequently linked with the Asuras, their sanctimonious character is never truly questioned in these narratives. On the contrary, they are consistently described as wise and exemplary Brahmins. Indeed, the Lord himself declares: “Of the great seers, I am Bhrgu” (Gita 10.25), and “Among great thinkers, I am Shukracharya” (Gita 10.37), the latter being explicitly associated with the Asuras.
      (1/3)

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    12. 4. This uniquely Bhrgu phenomenon seems to reflect a deeper strategy. The implicit message appears to be: if Brahmins revered by the Devas hold high status, how much greater must be the Bhrgus, who are revered by both Devas and Asuras? As Sukthankar aptly observed, this amounts to a kind of “psychological war,” through which the Bhrgus positioned themselves at the apex of the power hierarchy, which you've also noted in your book 'The Rigveda: A Historical Analysis' - "The extent of their domination is almost incredible, and it starts with a near monopoly over the Vedic Samhita literature itself".

      (P.S. I am an engineer with no formal training in Indology, but I have been studying the subject independently for the past five years. Your works have been a great inspiration to me, and I would very much appreciate your thoughts on these observations. Thank you once again for your valuable time.)

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    13. Dear Sir, one of my comments (part 2/3), which contains the core of my analysis, seems to have disappeared from the comment section. It was likely flagged by the moderation filters. May I kindly request you to check the moderation/spam queue and, if possible, approve it for publication?

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    14. I do not moderate comments, and don't even know anything about moderation filters or any procedure to control or operate or approve/disapprove comments. Possibly while uploading the comment you refer to, something must have happened at your end so that the comment did not appear.

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