“Neutral Linguistic
Terms” in the AIT-OIT Debate
Someone just sent me a series of tweets by Jijth Nadumuri Ravi posted between 7 February and 8 February 2026 (i.e. yesterday and today). I was not going to comment on Jijith’s tweets any more, having said everything there was to say. But here some points fundamental to the idea of Linguistic Terms in the AIT-OIT debate have been made which require to be corrected.
His first or so in the series of tweets starts out as follows:
https://x.com/Jijith_NR/status/2019998803554890106
“Are “Indo-Aryan” and “Dravidian” divisive terms? - Clearing some misconceptions:
Many people automatically assume that using neutral linguistic terms such as "Indo-Aryan" or "Dravidian" automatically implies support for the Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT). This assumption is incorrect. It is true that AIT-era colonial scholarship weaponised these terms to construct a North–South civilisational divide in India. However, terminological abuse does not invalidate linguistic classification. Today, the same terms are used within frameworks that explicitly reject AIT, including the Out of India Theory (OIT).”
So far so good. Also, a map showing the distribution of language families in India, shown in the tweet, is fine (see map at the end of this article).
But then the fallacies start:
He, of course, starts out by repeating his usual lies about the locations given by me. Now on the model of “Shrikant Talageri places Manu in Ayodhya”, he writes:
“In Indian-origin models PIE is located within India, not outside it. Shrikant Talageri places PIE in eastern Uttar Pradesh. But we locate it in the Sarasvatī basin.”
Right from my first book in 1993, I have put it as follows:
“The original Indo-European
language, which we will here call “proto-proto-Indo-European” to distinguish it
from the hypothetical language (proto-Indo-European) reconstructed by European
linguists, was spoken in interior North India; but in very ancient times it had
spread out and covered a large area extending to Afghanistan, and had developed
a number of dialects, which may be classified as follows:
1. Outer Indo-European
dialects: Spoken in Afghanistan and northern Kashmir and the adjoining north
Himalayan region.
2. Central Indo-European
dialects: Spoken in what we may call the “Punjab region” and in southern
Kashmir,
3. Inner Indo-European dialects: Spoken in the expanse of northern India from the Gangetic region to Maharashtra and from Punjab to Orissa and Bengal.” (TALAGERI 1993:185)”
In short I located ““The original Indo-European language ……. in interior North India” without assigning any specific part of North India to it, and only specified the locations of three groups of IE proto-dialects.
Subtle modifications to this scheme in my later books and articles led to a stratification into three groups of dialects (Druhyu, Anu and Pūru) constituting the 12 extant IE branches used in the reconstruction of the “hypothetical language (proto-Indo-European) reconstructed by European linguists” not including the “Inner Indo-European dialects: Spoken in the expanse of northern India from the Gangetic region to Maharashtra and from Punjab to Orissa and Bengal” which existed but were not used by the European linguists in their reconstruction.
Nowhere does “Shrikant Talageri place PIE in eastern Uttar Pradesh”.
But there are other fallacies in his tweets:
1. He writes: "Multiple
Dravidian homeland models exist: ---------
In
Central Indian homeland theory Dravidian expands north-westward to Gujarat and
Balochistan. In Elam (south-west Iran) origin theory, Dravidian migrates from
Iran to Balochistan, Gujarat, and Central India. In both models
Dravidian reaches South India from Central India.".
There is no theory which locates the original Proto-Dravidian in Central India and then has the Dravidian languages moving into "South India from Central India." The two extant “theories” locate the original Proto-Dravidian in Elam in southern Iran (and in an exaggerated version even taking it further back into Africa!) and in South India respectively. Even western AIT supporters like Witzel, Hock, Southworth and others now accept that the minor Dravidian languages spoken in Central India and Baluchistan migrated there from South India.
2. He also writes: "Within OIT, the linguistic sequence remains structurally
valid: Proto-Indo-European (PIE) > Proto-Indo-Iranian > Proto-Indo-Aryan
> Vedic Sanskrit"
I have always completely rejected the concept of an "Indo-Iranian" intermediary between PIE and the Iranian and Indo-Aryan branches, so his claim is completely wrong, I have shown how all the similarities between Indo-Aryan and Iranian are not because of a parent "Proto-Indo-Iranian" but because one of the Anu branches (Iranian) in a late period, after the migration of the other Anu branches (Greek, Armenian, Albanian) remained behind and interacted with Pūru Indo-Aryan which produced all these common elements which the linguists wrongly assumed to be common elements from an earlier period and therefore wrongly postulated a common “Proto-Indo-Iranian”.
So, while “Proto-Indo-Iranian” may be part of the linguistic sequence in the AIOIT, it does not even exist in the OIT. [He writes: “These are two dominant OIT models of today.” No, there are not: there is one OIT model and one AIOIT model.
Further, note the muddled use of the word in the tweets: “From this Indian homeland, Indo-Iranian migrated westward into Iran. Other Indo-European branches moved into Eurasia. Indo-Aryan remained and spread within India”. Should he not say “Iranian migrated westward into Iran”?
3. There is more trivialization of terms and issues:
“Those
uncomfortable with the label PIE may simply call it the "Sarasvatī
language", but the linguistic relationships remain unchanged.”
“Don't like the name PIE? NO PROBLEM. CALL IT THE
SARASVATI LANGUAGE.”
So, because Jijith locates the original PIE on the Sarasvati, the language can be called “Sarasvati language”? No promulgator of Homeland theories has made such a suggestion: I have never suggested that it can be called “Interior North Indian language” (or, as per Jijith’s fabrication, “Eastern UP language” or "Ayodhya language"), supporters of a Steppe Homeland have never suggested it should be called “Steppe language”, and supporters of an Anatolian Homeland have never suggested that it should be called “Anatolian language”.
In a previous article, I had pointed out to someone (who insisted that PIE should instead be called Proto-Sanskrit or Proto-Vedic), that PIE was the (reconstructed) ancestor of all the known IE languages − of Latin, Greek, English, Sinhalese and Tocharian as much as of Vedic/Sanskrit – and could equally well be called Proto-Latin, Proto-Greek, Proto-English, Proto-Sinhalese or Proto-Tocharian. Proto-Indo-European is the only correct name because it is a neutral academic term covering all the IE languages, and is not based on pandering to any particular Homeland theory.
So Jijith basically has the concept of “neutral linguistic terms” correct does not seem to have understood it himself in his zeal to promote his own AIOIT case.
And, his map is also a nice one:
India was unlikely the PIE homeland. It was probably South of Caucus
ReplyDeleteSorry, I have no time or patience to become a kindergarten teacher again and start teaching everything from a,b,c. My writings on this subject have already passed the final post-graduate stage.
DeleteHi Shrikant Sir,
ReplyDeleteI have been reading your books and have also been watching lots of videos of yours from Kushal and I have rewatched them multiple times as well. Great work by you and I really like all your books as well, I have read them online and have not bought them, but will buy them when I come to India. Just wanted to appreciate your work!!
I have a question too!
ReplyDeleteI have been deep diving into both sides AMT and OIT (books).
I have come across one of video of David Miano, where he dates the Rigveda to 2000BCE to 1500 BCE and talks about thr Saraswati evidence by OIT, shwoing that Saraseati was still flowing (rainfed) still by 1500BCE in Punjab/Haryana, which is a well put video. Was wondering if you could share your thoughts/review on this.
https://youtu.be/ZvTlJDWG0lM?si=1Y2LiD-MgeL3q26a
Hey letting you know that Shrikant sir has already covered this topic deeply in all 3 of his books including the Tony Joseph one. Please check any of them out.
DeleteBut in short, his views can be summed up as-
1. Rig Veda’s Mandalas or books can be divided into roughly two parts- Old(6, 7, 4, 2, 5) and New (8, 1, 9, 10). This is proposed and accepted by mainstream theory like Witzel.
2. Old Mandalas/Books aka Family Books extensively cover Saraswati in its prime as a mighty river and cover the Eastern India geography and flora-fauna. They have ZERO references to the Western rivers and Geography which only start appearing in the later Mandalas. The New books also refer to a weakening Saraswati and Indus (Sindhu) now becomes most prominent. This works against a foreign West to East migration inside India and suggests an out of India from the East to West (Afghanistan region).
3. The Mitanni Empire dated to ~1600 BC but Indo Aryan presence there goes back few centuries. Mainstream theory suggests Aryans split before entering Iran-India. However Shrikant sir contends they use New Rigvedic Sanskrit thus it’s a timeline crash.
These are his main arguments very briefly summarized as applicable to your Saraswati question.
Note: I am just an amateur or hobbyist learner. I do not currently have the full knowledge held by the OIT or AIT/AMT camps so I cannot and am not making any claim. As of now there’s no YouTube or online video creator or video who accurately explains either the OIT or AMT. So be aware of plentiful misinformation online. His books offer very good arguments which you should read alongside mainstream books like Reich, Anthony, Mallory etc so get a grounded view.
So he places the Old Rig Veda around 3500-3000 BC though it can be older. The newer ones after 2500 BC. Saraswati started drying up around the new period and around 2200 BC there was a drought which affected Saraswati and far away to Egypt, Mesopotamia etc after which the Saraswati was basically gone by 1500 BC.
DeleteYes, I have read Anthony, Mallory and Shrikant sir's books. Sir makes great argument against the mainstream guys and they come back with Rgveda glorifies things and all, when they themselves use Asvamedha as proof, even though they do not have any archaelogical proof on their end and we find them in IVC before their regions, as per BB Lals book.
DeleteThanks for your reply!!
I am new to this stuff too, but since 1-2 years I have been reading and deep diving into these and sometimes find myself in a situation where I feel like we need something iron clad for their(AITs) fake theory, so I ended up asking Shrikant sir about what he thinks about that, apart from all the evidences he has already given in his books.
There are 2 main parts-
DeleteA) Aryan Homeland
B) How did they spread out of that homeland.
As of now OIT is only focused on proving there was no migration into India. All the OIT literature (which is itself scant) has gone to part A. While mainstream academia has a theory that tries to explain both A & B.
So as long as OIT does not provide answer for B, it cannot become a compelling framework. Even the mainstream focuses on B, as they don’t have any consensus among themselves for the homeland either. So they’re focused on trying to reverse trace the migration paths from various regions. OIT specialists aren’t yet contributing to it.
OIT needs to actually focus on what it’s termed as- Out of India migration
Actually, he has explained part B too. You can check his older blogs. I don't remember the title but I certainly remember reading it.
DeleteI think Shrikant sir has explained till Iran/Armenia itself, which totally makes sense. Anything past that should be looked into by rest of the poeple who believe in this as he has atleast brought some good arguments onto OIT side and has given us some hope, due to his life long work. Burden is on rest of us to find out and put forward rest of it in future.
DeleteMy thoughts are we don't find genetic markers Indians migrated out of India, even though I don't beleive genetics has no part in taking the language. Maybe it happened same as the numericals went to arab world, but most of the time they took help of translation from persians. Indians actually just went once to translate. We do find Iranian dna all around the asia maybe they took the language around after going out of india? Some were done by us through trading.
Just a thought, but there should be more evidence to prove this.
Namaste Sir, I’ve recently read your Rig Veda and Tony Joseph book. You have made very strong arguments. I wanted to suggest a topic that can be further explored- the disconnect between ‘Steppe’ DNA vs the Kalash and Nuristani (Pre Islam) people of NW Pakistan-Afghanistan.
ReplyDeleteNote: I am not making any claim but pushing forth an open question, curious to see whether OIT or AIT/AMT can better account for this visible discrepancy.
Interesting Case of The Kalash-Nuristani People
* The Kalash including Nuristani are considered cultural and genetic isolates. They have not interacted or intermixed much with their neighbors and invaders since the hypothesized Aryan Migration into India.
* From this it is insinuated that they’re relics of ancient Indo-Aryan Indo-Iranian people. They phenotypically look more ‘European’ with lighter hair, skin and eyes. They also have near highest ranging ‘Steppe’ ancestry.
* From this it is said their culture-religion and genetics is archaic and something like how the invading or migrating Aryans would’ve looked.
However there are counter points raised if one considers them to be the more equivalent ancient Aryans, with respect to the Mitanni evidence.
The points being:
1. Mitanni (and few Cassite) inscriptions and deities are Rigvedic Sanskrit only found in the ‘more intermixed’ Aryans of India not the ‘isolated or purer’ Kalash-Nuristani who are considered most similar to the Proto Indo-Iranians (at least genetically). There are no Kalash-Nuristani terms with the Mitanni (at least as of what I am aware presently. Correct me if I’m wrong).
2. How did they forget the more advanced Rigvedic or Avestan cultures and became more shamanistic if they travelled alongside them?
3. This is an obstacle because Kalash-Nuristani have among highest ‘Steppe’ ancestry yet their cultures or deities or loanwords are no where to be found. Instead one finds Indo Iranian deities and loanwords from West Asia to Finno-Ugric in the Upper Steppe regions. Shouldn’t it be the opposite?
4. Or is this because there is simply not much decipherable difference between the Indo-Iranian in West Asia and up North vs the Kalash-Nuristani languages?
4. Does this raise a need to re-examine the classification and analysis of the genetic code ‘Steppe’ and does it insinuate having higher ‘Steppe’ Ancestry doesn’t correlate to being ‘more Aryan’?
Besides all these arguments are without even needing to bring up your linguistic analysis linking Mitanni to New Rigvedic Sanskrit meaning.
Please correct me if I’m wrong. I’m just putting up a topic of exploration not make any claim. I currently lack the expertise and knowledge held by you and the mainstream academia so I could very well be misunderstanding any of this.
Labelling the Indo-Aryan Ikshvakus as some other non Indo-Aryan inner Indo-Europeans is an act of clownery. Ikshvakus appeared in the period of late rigveda, and all the 6th mandala hymns mentioning them are redacted hymns, as mentioned by Oldenberg. Also there's no evidence to claim that Mandhata was a very distinct pre vedic ancestor of Tarsadasyu Purukutsa, he must've lived a couple of generations before them but dating him to say 3500 BCE (pre Rigvedic) and Tarsadasyu Purukutsa to 2500 BCE is just insane. It also looks weird that nabhaga kanva would randomly call a distinct figure his great grandfather or whatever.
ReplyDeleteBoth Talageri and Nadmuri are unscholarly snobbish people who wrongly present the data to suit their propaganda.