The Location of the Bharata Pūrus in My Writings
Shrikant G. Talageri
After all this argumentation about the original location of the Bharata
Pūrus in my writings, let me set the records straight
Since no-one can quote anything in my 1993 book where I say the Pūrus originated in Kashi, let me do their homework for them and point out a section in my 2000 book where it can be alleged that I claimed the Rigvedic kings were kings of Kashi. This was in my description of the Anukramaṇīs for X.179.2, where I pointed out that the verse is attributed to Pratardana Kāśirāja, and that this could indicate that according to the Anukramaṇīs Pratardana was a king of Kashi, and I even waxed eloquent on this point.
But I also simultaneously pointed out that:
“Maṇḍala X, as we saw, was composed after the other nine Maṇḍalas,
and compiled so long after them that its language alone, in spite
of attempts at standardisation, is sufficient to establish its late position. The
ascription of hymns in this Maṇḍala is so chaotic that in most of the hymns
the names, or the patronymics/epithets, or both, of the composers, are
fictitious; to the extent that, in 44 hymns out of 191, and in parts of one
more, the family identity of the composers is a total mystery.
In many other hymns, the family identity, but not
the actual identity of the composers, is clear or can be deduced: the hymns are
ascribed to remote ancestors, or even to mythical ancestors not known to have
composed any hymns
in earlier Maṇḍalas”.
However, the above aberration in my enthusiastic description of the Anukramaṇīs for X.179.2 in my second book was not borne out anywhere else in my actual analysis on the subject and therefore no-one can honestly claim that I placed the Bharatas in Kashi.
In my first book in 1993, I have not analyzed the geography or other data in the Rigveda on my own, I have only described the descriptions of analysts of the Puranas (like Pargiter and Bhargava) as to the locations of the various dynasties. I repeatedly pointed out that the earliest forefathers like Manu, Ikṣvāku and Sudyumna were mythical persons. But, in noting the Puranic descriptions, I described the situation as follows:
“At this point of time,
the Purāṇas shift their major focus on to five dynasties, which they claim to
be branches of the Sudyumna/Aila dynasty. These five dynasties are located as
follows:
a.
The Pūru dynasty: located around the region of the Sarasvati river (the
Punjab, Haryana, and adjoining parts of western Uttar Pradesh).
b.
The Anu dynasty: located to the north of the Pūrus, in the region to the north
of the Paruṣṇī river (Kashmir).
c.
The Druhyu dynasty: located to the west of the Purus (the north-west frontiers,
Afghanistan).
d.
The Yadu dynasty: located to the south-west of the Pūrus (Gujarat, western
Madhya Pradesh, northern Maharashtra).
e.
The Turvasu dynasty: located to the south-east of the Pūrus (location
uncertain, but specifically to the cast of the Yadus).” (TALAGERI 1993:303).
I continued: “Of these, the Pūrus are most certainly the continuation of the main Sudyumna line. This is proved by both the Vedic evidence … and the Puranic and epic evidence (which clearly states that Pūru inherited the ancestral kingdom, around the Sarasvatī river, from his father Yayātī).” (TALAGERI 1993:303-4).
A few pages later, I repeated this geographical picture:
“The Purāṇas locate the
five dynasties, which are classified as Sudyumna dynasties, as follows:
1.
The Pūru dynasty: the central region (Punjab, western Uttar Pradesh,
Haryana, Delhi and Himachal Pradesh).
2.
The Anu dynasty: the northern region (Kashmir).
3.
The Druhyu dynasty: the western region (northernmost Kashmir, the northwest
frontiers, Afghanistan).
4.
The Turvasu dynasty: the south-eastern region (not stated clearly, and not
identifiable; but supposed to be to the east of the Yadus. In any case, the
dynasty fades away into obscurity in the Puranas itself).
5.
The Yadu dynasty: the south-western region (Gujarat, western Madhya Pradesh,
northern Maharashtra).
Bhargava,
however, insists that all these five dynasties ruled in different parts of the
Punjab itself. He, in fact, locates them in the same directions as indicated
above, but within the Punjab: the Pūrus in the centre, the Anus to the
north, the Druhyus to the west, the Turvasus to the south-east and the Yadus to
the south-west. But the Pūrus, by all accounts, have to be placed on the
banks of the Sarasvatī and cannot be restricted only to the central part of the
Punjab. Hence, it is rather difficult for Bhargava to place the Turvasus and
Yadus to the south-east and south-west respectively of the Purus, and yet show
them located within the Punjab. Hence, when showing the locations of the
five dynasties, in the map shown by him, Bhargava places his trust in the
indulgence, or carelessness, of his readers” (TALAGERI 1993:322-23).
Please note that I have maintained this same geographical description from my first book in 1993 to my most recent blog (whichever) where I have described the locations of the five tribes. The Pūrus referred to here are the ancestral Pūrus, of which the Bharata dynasty of the Rigveda constituted just one later subtribe.
[Incidentally, in referring to the Bharata dynasty
prominent in the Rigveda:, Bhargava writes: “The Paurava dynasty's list ends with the foundation of
its branch, the Tṛtsus, who ruled very near the (main-line) Paurava territory” (TALAGERI 1993:326).. Nowhere do
Kashi or Ayodhya enter into this picture.]
Let us go on to my second book (published in the year 2000), which
occurs at the very end of the 1990s, and is also the book where I made that
reference in the form of the above admittedly
unwarranted aberration in my description of the Anukramaṇīs
for X.179.2:
In that book also (even after giving some nominal consideration
to the Anukramaṇīs for X.179.2), I point out in my actual
analysis not only that Divodāsa and Sudās were kings of Kurukshetra
(with Kashi nowhere in the picture), but even that their ancestors
were likewise kings of Kurukshetra :
“The references to Haryana
are fairly distributed throughout the Rigveda, right from the oldest Maṇḍala
VI: VI.1.2 refers to Agni being established at Iḷaspada. Even more
significantly, III.23.4 tells us that Devavāta (an ancestor of Divodāsa of the
oldest Maṇḍala VI) established Agni at that spot.” (TALAGERI 2000:117-118)
Likewise in my third book (2008):
“The references to the
eastern rivers (Sarasvatī, Āpayā and Drṣadvatī), in the second oldest book, in
III.23.4, speak of the establishment of sacred fires on the banks of these
rivers by ancestors” (TALAGERI 2008:100).
“the establishment of the sacred fire at “the centre of the earth” in Kurukṣetra by the ancestors of Sudās (in III.23)” (TALAGERI 2008:127).
I need hardly add that in subsequent books (2008, 2019) after my second book (in the year 2000) and in my blog articles (which started after 2012), nowhere is there even the hint of any reference to the Anukramaṇīs for X.179.2 or to any location of early Pūrus in Eastern U.P (whether in Kashi or Ayodhya): everywhere the ancestral land is unequivocally Haryana.
So was it just my enthusiastic description of the Anukramaṇīs for X.179.2 in my second book (2000), which was contradicted sharply in my actual analysis in all my four books (1993, 2000, 2008 and 2019) including that same book (2000), and in every single one of my blog articles, which has led to these persistent allegations that I located the early Pūrus in Kashi or Eastern U.P.?
Well even this single aberration (in my description of an Anukramaṇī reference) has not been cited by these people, and it required me to do that homework for them. There is no other reference which can be cited.
If anu’s were located west of Punjab and North then how did Cayamana was fighting against Iranian tribe in Hariyupiya in haryana area. It makes no sense.
ReplyDeleteIt will make sense after you have read my books and articles on the subject.
DeleteKalibangan, rakhigarhi, bhirrana etc this area around saraswati seems to be area of purus
ReplyDeleteDear talageri ji,
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think about this...i mean what is the connection between proto indo iranian, uralic, and indo Aryan
1. Most of the "Pllr" loans into Uralic are attested only in one branch: Indo-Aryan. Yet they're claimed to be "Proto-Indo-Iranian" loans
2. The apparent "distinction" between PIIr and later Iranian loans is the ill-defined distinction between ś and ć. But most Uralic linguists hold it as the same consonant. In fact, we see that it's interchangeable in IIr loans. Ex: affricate in jhásram gives sibilant in sasra
3. Many of the "IIr" loanwords would have to be borrowed as pure roots. Sanskrit śişțá is attested in Uralic, thought to be from the root *śiş-. This implies that Uralic speakers knew IA linguistics
Yet it's considered a PIIr word (though Holopanien accepts it's a "very late borrowing from a late IIr phase"). I was needlessly breaking my head to explain the Uralic loans considering such low standards are acceptable to
kurganist
Actually one of my friends sent this to me , he wanted to know your opinion about how those languages may have interacted with each other...
And please try to join twitter, insta or any other social media site...there have been many interesting things going on from the perspective of our scenario...in one group which i have joined we are trying to put things in place through a multidisciplinary approach using linguistics archaelogy, genetics etc..
Talageri ji...
ReplyDeleteAlso as you have referred in your works before about the movement of mitannis and kassites out of India, after 2000 bc roughly, it coincides with naram sin's invasion on meluhha as it is Said in resources there it is said that naram recruited sone of the native tribes in his army during that invasion...also coincidentally we find a cryptic notion of naram sin in one hymns as narmaram suhavasum...also horses appeared in mesopotamia roughly around the same period brought by the same tribes from mountainous region... perhaps this was the reason they are called there as the ass of the mountain...as we see that even pirak have horses and horse figurines...so i think to the both sides horses are appearing from a same area which is more or less Balochistan and some part of Afghanistan...
(50) The Steppe Homeland of PIE' Hypothesis: A Critique https://share.google/fyOCScq69dg8hQSAG
ReplyDelete