Kavi Cāyamāna in the Dāśarājña Battle
Shrikant G. Talageri
I was sent this tweet a short while ago:
He continues:
And further:
I find all this incredible. I do not understand why people go on arguing on points where they are clearly wrong. Perhaps just because they have already, earlier, expressed an opinion on the subject and feel it beneath their dignity to accept that they have to change their opinion?
To begin with, whatever may be the grammatical meaning of the word cāyamāna, and the various meanings and contexts of the word kavi, words have particular meanings in particular contexts. In this case, it is not I who have initiated the "reading" of VII.18.8 as referring to Kavi Cāyamāna: Wilson has translated the reference as: "Kavi the son of Cāyamāna, like a falling victim, sleeps (in death)". Quoting grammatical meanings shows a gross ignorance of the fact that the Rigveda (as noted by most scholars, including Witzel and Jamison), often executes poetic puns on personal names, and it is the context which shows the meaning.
Note also that the word cāyamāna, in the whole of the Rigveda, occurs only in three verses: except for the late occurrence in X.94.14, where indeed the word is translatable in its grammatical sense (like an earlier singular form nicāyamāna in IV.38.5), the word is found in only two contexts: in VI.27.5, 8, in the context of the hariyūpīyā battle, and in VII.18.8 in the context of the dāśarājña battle. The hero in the first is Sṛñjaya, and in the second it is his descendant Sudās. The pṛthu/pārthava are allies in the first battle (VI.27.8) but enemies in the second (VII.83.1), and their leader in the first is Abhyāvartin Cāyamāna, and Kavi Cāyamāna in the second. Everything falls into place like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle, and quibbling of this kind is totally out of place.
As for the word kavi in this whole context, it can be understood as the name of the defeated king, how on earth does the idea of a "poet lying there, being perceived as an animal" make the slightest bit of sense in the context? On any point one can quote the differing opinions of different Indologists, but the exercise is a senseless one if the only intention is to sabotage the obvious meaning. And how did Köhler "suggest" that kavi in this context is the "one who conceived or ordered the deviation of Parushni river"? Does this make the slightest sense either? Which "kavi", how, and why?
As for the objection that "there is not such a dynasty in the Vedas", obviously there is no such dynasty in the Vedas! The Vedas are Pūru books, this was an Anu (proto-Iranian) king (and not yet a dynasty: his descendants much later constituted the dynasty) whom Sudās encountered after he had marched all the way up to the Paruṣṇī river, and as the further descendants of this king migrated out of India, it is in the Avesta and not the Vedas that we must seek out this dynasty. And the Avesta certainly gives us the kauuiiān dynasty!
The word kavi has many connotations: it is mainly "poet" or "seer", but also the personal name of the father of an ancient pre-Rigvedic Bhṛgu sage Uśanas Kāvya. or Kavi Uśanā, remembered also in the Avesta as Kauui Usan, and found in later mythological renderings of the Deva-Asura conflict as the head-priest of the Asuras (also called Uśanas Śukra or Śukrācārya). He is highly revered in all Vedic and post-Vedic texts. In fact, there is no place anywhere in any of these texts that he, although the head-priest of the Asuras, is held in disrespect or dislike, or where the word kavi is treated as the name of an enemy. So which "sage, seer" would this enemy kavi in the dāśarājña battle be if he is not to be the king of the proto-Iranians (fitting in with later Avestan data)?
As I have pointed out as long ago as in 2000, it is in Iranian texts that we find two differently viewed entities called "kavi". Or rather, three, if one counts the ancestral Kauui Usan held in as much reverence in the Iranian texts as in the Indian texts:
"The Avesta also shows the movement of a group from among the Bhṛgus towards the side of the Deva-worshippers: there are two groups of Athravan priests in the Avesta, the Kavis and the Spitamas, and it is clear that the Kavis had moved over to the enemies.
The pre-Avestan (and pre-Rigvedic) Kavi Usan (Kavi Uśanā or Uśanā Kāvya) is lauded in the Bahrām Yašt (Yt.14.39) and Ābān Yašt (Yt.5.45). Also, a dynasty (the most important dynasty in Avestan and Zoroastrian history) of kings from among the Kavis is twice lauded in the Avesta, in the Farvardīn Yašt (Yt.13.121) and the Zamyād Yašt (Yt.19.71). The kings of this dynasty, named in these Yašts, include Kavi Kavāta (Kaikobād of later times) and Kavi Usadhan (Kaikaus of later times, who is regularly confused, in later traditions, with the above Kavi Usan).
However, the Kavis as a class are regularly condemned throughout the Avesta, right from the Gāthās of Zarathuštra onwards, and it is clear that they are regarded as a race of priests who have joined the ranks of the enemies even before the period of Zarathuštra himself.
Hence, it is not the Bhṛgus or Atharvans as a whole who are the protagonist priests of the Avesta, it is only the Spitama branch of the Athravans. Hence, also, the name of the Good Spirit, opposed to the Bad Spirit Angra Mainyu (a name clearly derived from the name of the Aṅgirases), is Spenta Mainyu (a name clearly derived from the name of the Spitamas)". (TALAGERI 2000:178-79).
Note added 2/9/2022:
Discussions on the above article make it necessary to bring forward two important points:
1. Whatever the grammatical or accentual differences, there can be no doubt that the word cāyamāna has exactly the same meaning in both the references (apparently my careless last-minute inclusion of the word nicāyamāna as a related word was wrong): it refers to an entity which is an ally in hymn VI. 27, and an enemy in VII.18. Insisting that the two references do not mean the same thing, the first being a name, and the second being merely a grammatical participle, amounts to special pleading, however many scholars be quoted to that effect. The word (with whatever accent) is found only three times in the whole of the Rigveda and in fact in the whole of the corpus of the four Vedic Samhitas. Leaving out the late occurrence of the word in Book 10, it is found only in two contexts referring to the first two expansionist battles of the Bharata Pūrus in the Rigveda. It is a blatant case of special pleading to insist that in the whole of the first nine books of the Rigveda, as well as in the three other veda Samhitas, there was no other context which called for the use of this "grammatical participle".
2. What makes it even more incongruous is that again, in the Rigveda, we find an identical case of another enemy entity, again in the context of two expansionist Bharata Pūru battles (the second and third). The word śimyu occurs only twice in the whole of the Rigveda (and never again after that): in I.100.18 and VII.18.5. The first word has an accent on the first syllable, and the second word has an accent on the second syllable. In both cases, in exactly similar contexts, both the words have been identified in identical terms as a reference to the enemies of the hymn by Griffith, Wilson, Grassmann, Geldner, and Jamison! Clearly this is not an isolated case.
I came across this in Twitter - "Talageri in "Rational perspective of full Out of indian case" mentions that dadhichi introduced secrets of North West to Indra . It means Dadhyanc resided in NW india. The same Dhadhyanc as Atharvan is mentioned to be the original priest of Bharathas in mandala 6".
ReplyDeleteCan you clarify your position on this?
I would need to clarify my position on this only if there were any such reference claiming that Dadhyanc was "the original priest of the Bharatas". As I have pointed out in detail in my books and blogs, all the references to the early bhrgus in the Old Rigveda only talk of their role in introducing fire worship.
DeleteThe tweeter that you are referring to is one about whom I have written before: someone who has not read my books and blogs but has pompous, foolish, and wrong, opinions to express on every conceivable point: including what my my gotra must be!
Oh I didn't know that! He regularly tweets about you, so I just got curious. Sorry for wasting your time.
DeleteTalageri,
ReplyDeleteI was really hoping you see Asko Parpola’s paper on the Sinauli chariots. He says they are Indo European.
https://journal.fi/store/article/view/9803
Also I am a different “anonymous”
DeleteBut why give your name as "anonymous" then if there are many other people doing the same? Why don't you use a more distinctive pseudonym?
DeleteAbout that paper, I don't think there is much sense in Parpola's article (his articles are often quite senseless) but I will do it soon. At the moment I am concentrating on two articles (on the Grtsamadas and on the Nivids respectively) which I want to first complete and upload.
When I first made the pseudonym, counterintuitively no else used it so I never had to worry about confusion.
DeleteBut thanks for considering the article
Thank you for exposing me to public infamy, not only in the blog, but also in a paper on Academia. You can't believe it, but I am really not convinced by your identification. The first time I saw the reference to Kavi Cayamana in your works, I was fascinated, but when I have deepened the analysis, I have realized that it is not tenable. Maybe you have not seen another tweet: "Sorry but Kavi cannot be a proper name, it is an epithet as in st.2 for Indra. And cā́yamānaḥ is a participle as in X.94,14, while VI.27.8 has cāyamānó, with different accent. Wackernagel (II,2 772) says it is a patronymic Vriddhi from the participle." I mean that it is unlikely that it can be a proper name in this context, as is shown by the use of kavi- in st.2 and because of the opposition with paśú-. If we were sure that a Kavi Cayamana existed, we could think of a pun with a proper name, but we have not this certainty, and the translation of Geldner gives perfect sense: "Als (Opfer)tier lag er da, der sich für einen Weisen hielt." Frank Köhler in his thesis "Kavi im Rgveda" translates: "es lag das Vieh, das sich als kavi- betrachtete". The meaning is the same, the second one literally is: "there lay the beast, that regarded himself as a kavi", that is, a wise man. So, Köhler suggests (p.50) that here is meant either the one who had the idea of deviating the river Parushni, or the one who gave the order for the execution of the deviation. That person thought to be clever, but he had no success, and he is sarcastically compared with a lying animal. Köhler also cites the proposal of Velankar that Vasishtha here alludes ironically to Vishvamitra. He also cites the idea of Sharma that it is a proper name, a brother of Abhyavartin, but he remarks that in no other places in RV kavi- is used for a proper name. Also in RV VI.26.1 he considers kavi- before Uśanā as an epithet. We must admit that in other occurrences he is always called Kāvya, not Kavi, and that in the same stanza we also find the epithets ŕ̥ṣi and vípra. Anyway, in this case Jamison and Brereton accept a proper name, and I don't exclude it, although it is the only case in RV (not considering the Anukramani of course).
ReplyDeleteA mistake of Köhler, however, is that he did not notice that Abhyavartin is called cāyamānó, with accent on the last syllable, which is the form of the patronymic as noted by Wackernagel and Mayrhofer and that is different from the participle cā́yamānaḥ that we find here. By the way, if you want to consider cā́yamānaḥ a proper name, Abhyavartin would be the descendant, having the patronymic!
About nicāyamāna in IV.38.5, it is not related, as you can see from Padapatha, it is nīcā́ áyamānam.
I do not know why you are taking this personally. Please don't. Was it your intention in your original tweets to "expose me to public infamy"? I took it as a genuine scholarly objection to my (and Wilson's) identification, and replied to it. As I am not on twitter (where there is a much larger public audience than on my blog) I put it on my blog, and all my articles are put up simultaneously on academia as well. There was nothing personal in it, and could not have been, especially after you recently downloaded my academia article and wrote such a nice comment on it.
DeleteIf, as you say, nicāyamāna (which I looked up and added on my blog at the last moment without further investigation, which I admit was carelessness on my part) is not a related word, that only strengthens my case. That means there are only three occurrences of cāyamāna (whatever the grammatical or accentual differences) in the whole of the Rigveda. Leaving aside the late one in Book 10, isn't it too much of a "coincidence" that the word should occur only in these two related references among a cluster of other related contexts (of battles involving the same two groups of people)? Was there no other context in the whole of the first nine Books of the Rigveda which called for the use of this "participle cā́yamānaḥ that we find here"? I find this special pleading, no matter how many scholars are quoted. Such special pleading is a regular feature of AIT argumentation.
And I find it strange that any scholar should say "in no other places in RV kavi- is used for a proper name". Strange that this epithet should be so regularly used only before the name Uśanā in the Rigveda, as also before Usan in the Avesta, if it simply means ŕ̥ṣi or vípra, and be so regularly accepted as a name indicating at the very least the name of Uśanā's father or ancestor.
And, for good measure, please take note of this: the word śimyu occurs only two times in the whole of the Rigveda: in I.100.18 and VII.18.5. The first has an accent on the first syllable, and the second has an accent on the second syllable.
DeleteIn both cases, in exactly similar contexts (expansionist battles of the Bharata Purus), both the words have been identified in identical terms as a reference to the enemies of the hymn by Griffith, Wilson, Grassmann, Geldner, and Jamison! Where did all this logic about accents evaporate in that case?
Yes, I accept that recognizing the importance of accentuation in Rigvedic words is really necessary. But it should not be made into an obsession or be allowed to cloud our judgment in interpreting the Rigveda.
It is the first time I see my tweets used in this way. Without being asked or informed I find my name and face in evidence, followed by a comment wondering why I do not admit being wrong, and a nice remark about 'gross ignorance' because I dare to quote grammatical meanings, and I shouldn't take it personally? It's true that you have not even named me, I am just 'people' who 'are clearly wrong'.
DeleteMoreover, I don't consider tweets as something that should be included in an academic paper.
Now, let's try to discuss honestly, starting with the issue of śimyu. You have found an interesting case. In I.100.18 we have 'dásyūñ chímyūṃś (= śímyūn) ca', in VII.18.5 'śimyúm'. In the first case a plural, after plural Dasyus, a usual term for demons and enemies: BR dictionary interprets this śímyu- as designation of 'enemies' ("Bez. von Feinden"). The second case is in the Battle of the Ten Kings, singular, apparently the first instance in the hymn of a proper name of an enemy. BR dictionary says it is the name of a people. Similarly Grassmann's dictionary: "Feind, Verderber (wol eigentlich: rührig, im übeln Sinne geschäftig, oder feindlich andringend; vgl. śímī, śímīvat); 2) Name eines Volkes."
So, the singular form with accent on the ending can be a proper name of a foreign king or people, the plural with accent on the root a general designation of enemies like dasyu-, with a possible adjectival meaning (MW says "strenuous, vigorous, aggressive").
Ignoring accents is not possible in the RV, and it is a serious shortcoming not using them in Rigvedic studies. Many languages do not know mobile accents, but in Italian we know well their value. For instance, "péro" means 'pear tree', "però" "however". To say that we must not be obsessed with accents means to hinder understanding in these languages and to make blunders. An example in RV is dāsá- noun 'slave, demon' and dā́sa- adj. 'demoniacal, barbarous'. As Wackernagel II,2 p.110 explains, when the first syllable is ā, ai or au, the Vriddhi formation can be seen only through the change of accent. The same happens, with different change, with cā́yamāna- and cāyamāná-, where the second is considered a patronymic from the first, as said by Wackernagel II,2 p.772 and by Mayrhofer (KEWA I:383). This means that cā́yamāna- cannot be a patronymic, but it must be a participle as in X.94.14, or used as a proper name (but why together with Kavi? in that case, kavi- should be an epithet of the name Cayamana).
Wackernagel, differently from Mayrhofer and Geldner, translates the participle 'sich scheuend' 'being afraid of (doing)'. I doubt that this can be the meaning of a proper name, it could be offensive for a warrior king. MW instead translates the participle cā́yamāna-, both in RV VII.18.5 and X.94.14 "to behave respectfully", which would give a positive meaning, but this does not give much sense in those passages. However, a medial participle like cā́yamāna- can take a passive meaning (Wackernagel II,2 p.774, cf. bháramāṇa-), so, 'feared', or 'revered', considering the connection of this root with honour and respect. We have a similar name in RV I.100.17, bháyamāna-, that in a medial sense would be an unlikely 'fearing', in passive 'feared'. But if cā́yamāna- means 'fearing' and 'feared, revered', VII.18.5 could mean 'the revered sage lay down as an animal', which is less sarcastic but gives sense too. Also in X.94.14 ádrayaś cā́yamānāḥ would mean simply 'the revered stones'.
Anyway, this deserves a special study, but there is no compelling reason to accept Kavi Cayamana as a proper name, and it is not possible to interpret cā́yamāna- as a patronymic. The argument that being found only twice cā́yamāna- is "a blatant case of special pleading to insist that in the whole of the first nine books of the Rigveda, as well as in the three other veda Samhitas, there was no other context which called for the use of this "grammatical participle" is a strange argument. We have for instance the participle dásamāna- only once in RV I.134.5.
I honestly do not understand why you find my article so personally offensive. Did you want me to not reply to it at all, or did you want me to join twitter just to reply to your tweet which referred to me without my being "asked or informed"?
ReplyDeleteYour long quotations of grammatical rules simply do not prove your point. They only show tortuous reasoning and failure to face the facts. Why the word " dásamāna- only once in RV I.134.5" has anything to do with this case is beyond my understanding. There are very many words which are found only once or twice in the Rigveda.
The point here is that we have three hymns which deal with consecutive battles (over a period of time) involving the same two groups: the hariyupiya battle in VI.27, the dasarajna battle in VII.18 and the varshagira battle in I.100.
A word is found only in the first two of these hymns, and almost nowhere else, and one of these two (the first) is accepted by almost all scholars, and the second by one scholar (Wilson), as a name.
Another word is found only in the second and third of these hymns, and nowhere else, and both are accepted by all scholars as a name.
How does this situation compare with some stray "participle" that you dig up from some corner of the Rigveda ( a text which contains 1028 hymns and 10552 verses)? What I am saying is not strange at all, but your tenacity in sticking to your guns in the face of all logic certainly is.
Good to know, Mr. Talageri, that you don't find offensive accusing of 'gross ignorance'. Probably you consider it the right way to speak of anyone who dares to contradict your theories. To reply on Twitter would have been fairer, although less practical, but you preferred to take my tweets and write a monologue. You could also contact me on Academia, as you know, but evidently you were not interested in debating.
ReplyDeleteBut now let's relax, I have no guns and I am not starting a legal complaint.
My 'tortuous reasoning' was intended to understand the meaning of cā́yamāna-. It is important also if you take it as a proper name. What you call facts are based on interpretations. Maybe you know Nietzsche's statement: "There are no facts, only interpretations!" Of course, we can interpret more or less rightly, and in order to correctly interpret a text first of all we need proper grammar. So, what you call a word, in VI.27 and VII.18, having two different accents is actually two words. In VI.27.5 and 8 we have the Vriddhi patronymic, cāyamāná-, meaning 'son of Cā́yamāna-', applied to Abhyavartin. In VII.18 we have the basic form, which is grammatically a middle participle, cā́yamāna-. If you interpret it as a proper name (as it can happen with these participles), he could be the father of Abhyavartin. So, your chronology would be inverted. Is it not better to consider it only a participle applied to the kavi- here mentioned?
I made the example of dásamāna- just to show that if a participle is used rarely, it is not strange, as you seemed to imply speaking of "some stray "participle" that you dig up from some corner of the Rigveda".
If someone is absolutely determined not to be convinced (or admit to being convinced) nothing in the world will be able to change that. I think both of us have said whatever we had to say on this point, and not just once but repeatedly, and the exchange is getting more and more childish. I think everyone is now aware of whatever we have to say. Let us leave it at that and to them.
DeleteIf you are determined to have the last word (I am not) please go ahead.
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