Sunday, 9 April 2023

How People Casually Arrive at Conclusions on Rigvedic History on the Basis of Epic-Puranic References

 

 

How People Casually Arrive at Conclusions on Rigvedic History on the Basis of Epic-Puranic References

Shrikant G. Talageri

 

I do not know whether this article is really necessary, but I could not resist the chance to give an example of how casual writers arrive at conclusions on Rigvedic history on the basis of Epic-Puranic References, since I am constantly facing queries, comments or arguments of this kind:


So, according to Rupa Bhati, I am wrong in claiming that the Ikṣvākus of the east were originally outside the Rigvedic cultural horizon, since here is evidence (that I missed) from the Yoga Vasiṣṭha proving that the Vasiṣṭhas of the Rigveda were the "Gurus of the Ikṣvāku race"!

Yes, if these Epic-Puranic enthusiasts are to be believed, I have, throughout the course of my Rigvedic studies, constantly been "missing" out on such vital pieces of evidence from the Epics and Puranas!

Here is another piece of vital evidence that I missed out, on the antiquity of the southern kingdoms of the Andhras, Cholas, Cheras (Keralas) and Pandyas, among many others, from no less a text than the Valmiki Ramayana:

When Sugrīva, the king of the Vanaras, sends his Vanara emissaries all over India to search for Sita, he specifically tells them to "examine the districts of Andhras, Paundras, the Cholas, Pandyas and Keralas" (Valmiki Ramayana, Kishkindha Kanda, 4.41.12). A little later, he again addresses them: "O Monkeys, you will see the golden gates set with pearls of the city of the Pandyas" (Valmiki Ramayana, Kishkindha Kanda, 4.41.19). Translations by Hari Prasad Shastri. Vanga and Kalinga are also named in verse 11.

Rupa Bhati dates the Ramayana to 12209 BCE. But the beginnings of the long-lived Chola. Pandya and Chera kingdoms are dated to the 4th century BCE. If we want to avoid missing out on this important clue from the Valmiki Ramayana, we must either date both the Ramayana events (specifically the date on which Sugrīva sent out his Vanara emissaries to search for Sita) and the three Southern kingdoms to 12209 BCE or to the 4th century BCE!! I do not know which of the two will be acceptable to Rupa Bhati, but certainly Tamil enthusiasts will prefer the earlier date and western historians the latter one. But all these unwanted and totally unnecessary problems arise only when scholars insist on treating the very much later (i.e. 3rd century BCE or post-3rd century BCE) version of the Epics and Puranas, as we have them today, as treasuries of very ancient (Rigvedic-era, at the very least) historical and geographical data, and raise silly objections or produce untenable conclusions about Rigvedic history based on something or the other contained in these texts which were given their final form in the 3rd century BCE or post-3rd century BCE.

A thousand years from now, the script of the 1961 Hindi film Sampoorna Ramayana could be found by some researcher, and the scene in that film, showing Rama seeing Sita's image in a Sitaphal (custard apple) and Sita seeing Ram's image in a Ramphal (soursop), will be interpreted by some casual writer of that future age as an important clue that historical analysts of the Ramayana have missed out on. Since both the custard apple and the soursop were introduced into India from Latin America by the Portuguese in or after the 17th century CE, this brilliant writer will have unearthed a clue which could help date both the Portuguese arrival in India (with Latin American fruits) as well as the Ramayana events to either 12209 BCE or to some date post-17th century CE!

This is not a light matter. The process of trying to write Rigvedic or Rigvedic-era history and geography on the basis of Epic-Puranic data, even when it completely contradicts the evidence of the Rigveda (and sometimes even the combined evidence of the Rigveda and the Epic-Puranic texts!!) is a process which is going on all the time, and a very popular process with countless enthusiasts and fans.  

 

3 comments:

  1. Previously in one of the comments here I said that...unlike oral vedic literature ( which maintained its integrity by rigorous methods like ghanapatha ) ...written texts somehow didnot maintain their integrity and went on modifying. But from Ashok Aklujkar's lecture which I listened I came to realize that this is not true. If we take into consideration many shastra / sutra texts ex. texts on grammar or medicine...the improvisation in those text is rare. If any later generation authors want to modify or comment on such texts they did that in separate commentaries without modifying the original text. But this somehow do not apply to epic texts nor to purana texts...these texts are very liberally modified ...probably one needs some rigorous approach to find out the original/ older parts of these texts as well to know the REAL story/ kernel story/ older stories that are hidden in them so that to get away from many anachronism that are present in these texts. Now specifically about ramayana, presence of vasistha, vshvamitra appears to be so central to the story of ramyana...it is hard to believe that it might not be there in original ramayana story. But as your work suggests that might be the case right? ....on other broader note, many western indologists completely negate the relevance of Puranas/ epics in the study of Vedic thought/vedic histiriography. Whereas some indic scholars ex. mrugendra vinod, think that there is STRONG CONTINUITY between veda-smriti/itihasa/ epics-purana ( without denying the corruption of later texts ). So what is your opinion on such continuity...and do you think in general scholarship focused on itihasa/epic and on puranas can help throw new light on vedic histiriograpy and other vedic study? or do you think later texts ( itihasa/ purana ) are not helpful atall? these texts are corrupted beyond recognition to salvage any historicity out of them?

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  2. I completely agree with your conclusion that Epics and Puranas as available to us are post-Vedic texts and hence not contemporaneous source with Rigveda (thus inferior as sources of historical data compared to Rigvedic hymns).
    But are the conventional dating of these Epic-Purana texts to 3rd century BC to 3rd century AD (by western Indologists) convincing?
    If a text like Vedanga Jyotisha - which Witzel says is in Epic Sanskrit and dates to late first millennium BC on linguistic grounds - describes exactly the sky of 1400 BC (that is 1000 + years more than what is claimed by western scholars), will it be outrageous to suggest that present recensions of Itihasas (barring the interpolated stuff) is from 1300 BC? Herman Jacobi and Truman Michelson also have pointed out that Ramayana has archaisms which clearly proves that its composition predates Panini (who standardized Sanskrit) who lived in 3rd century BC - though they themselves do not assign an early date to present text of Ramayana.
    I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

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  3. Sir, I have been a follower, and a huge fan of your work for the past many years and have recently started reading your books on the Rigveda and Avesta. I was reading a novel, "Bhagwan Parasuram" by Shri K M Munshi about the Dasharajnya war. He gives a fictional account of the rivalry between Rishi Vishwamitra and Rishi Vashishta based on the Rigvedic hymns. I dont know how much of the novel is true and how much is fiction. He mentions Sudas as the leader of the Tritsu tribe and his animosity towards Rishi Vishwamitra. And, about Rishi Vishwamitra wanting to unite all the Dasyus, Tritsus, Bharatas under one banner.He tries to paint Rishi Vishwamitra as a hero who wanted to unify everybody and Sudasa as a villain who had notions of racial superiority of the Aryas over the Dasyus. Of course, its a novel, but based on true events. I dont know what his political affiliation was and whether he was close to the Congress and Nehru and whether any of that coloured his writings. But, from a scholarly perspective, is any of the above mentioned detail true? And, is the understanding, that the RIshi Vashishta in Ramayana is different from, BUT belonging to the same lineage the Rishi Vashishta mentioned in the RigVeda, correct? Sorry to bother you. But, I would be much obliged if you could kindly respond.

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